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Lowering the pickup does not yield the same result to my ears. I will contemplate the resistor option.
One thing I was thinking was I could just take the tone controls out of the equation - and sub them with volume controls. This way I would always have two volume controls on - just add a switch and I could have my solo volume (9) and my comp volume (say 4) always on. I always use the tone on 10 so it's useless to me... this may actually be the best solution!
Any opinions on this?
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04-27-2013 11:35 AM
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Do it! most excellent idea
Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
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Yes it seems like the best idea actually... the only thing I might miss is hitting my ods with 10 but my rat was sounding pretty good at home with the 9 setting... I think I will go for it!
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Just tried a little more and the ODs sound very good on 9 too.. less attack which I love. I think I found my solution...
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I'm going to do this! I have a 2 pickup guitar but never use the bridge pickup. I'm going to disconnect the bridge pu (or remove it completely?), and then wire the neck pu to a 2 position, DPDT, ON-ON toggle switch, replacing the 3 position toggle. The result is two independent vol/tone circuits. One for comping, one for solos. Set the knob positions once and then only need to touch the switch while playing. Originally Posted by Tom Karol
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Just a quick update: a friend made me two really small boards, one with a tuner and a volume pedal (front of the amp) and the other with delay and reverb (fx loop). These two can git a really small gator bag with two 9v transformers / daisy chains.
So... no need to do this mod. But I think replacing the tone pot for an extra volume pot would be the easiest solution...
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All this talk of hardware solutions with yes but responses gets a bit wearing.
Have you considered putting practice time into tuning the volume control
in and out of the settings where you get the sound that you're hearing.
We are after all playing electric guitar.
I experienced a similar problem when I got some top of the line Bournes pots in my
Gibson HR Fusion guitar.
....Sooth as...great for fast changes of tone /vol.
But the effect on tone was considerable....I just worked on it...in songs...
Not trying to be cute or anything....
There was a good bud of mine lived in the
same town, and a fine player.
I admired how he could manipulate the toggle switch,tones and volumes on various Gibson 2xhumbucker
guitars on the fly...often while holding down lead vocals.
...and to great affect.
I always thought that he just "had it", and asked him one time about his knob turning
prowess and he just said that it had bugged him how he was always adjusting the sound
and still not happy with the results....So he started practicing using the controls as a
function of playing...and with time and thought he got it to where he could tune in the
sound he wanted..in any room, and without looking!
.....and that's another factor to consider...does 9 always sound good to you in every room?
Anyways....I set about working WITH my guitar of the moment and have got much more
comfortable in dealing with these issues on whatever guitar I play.
Just a thought.
Worth a try.....then you can be cause rather than effect.
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Man don't want to be rude or anything but that is NOT a good idea... first of all of course I have tried to work with just the volume pot. It's impossible... when I go down to comping and then up to solos / melody I never end in exactly the same place. I cannot imagine being able to always find that spot by training. The thing is gigging is already stressful enough as it is... wasting energy on finding my volume spot on a gig is just a bad idea - there's a good chance I would never end in the same spot and therefore changing my volume all the time and there's also a good chance I would end up lost on a solo if I am wasting the first part of it finding my volume knob position.
And even if I were able to train that - considering I would probably had to waste a lot of time of my life with it - what would exactly would be the advantage vs 1) using a volume pedal 2) having two volume pots, given I don't use the tone?
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I hear you.
Sorry if I have caused any ill feeling.
Not my intention I assure you.
It's a very real issue you're dealing with under gig pressure.
Again, my apologies and hope that you'll soon find a solution.
We all learn on this forum.
I've just had a lesson in pulling my head in
...and maybe if I keep following this thread I'll find an easier way to deal with vol/tone interactions.
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Hey Moonray, no apologies needed!! I am open to all suggestions, I just can guarantee you - that one will not work for me... I wish it did actually since it's the easiest one
Sorry if I sounded harsh, lack of "voice tone" can lead to that on the net.
Apparently I am not the only one enjoying this thing, I learned a few weeks ago Larry Carlton does the exact same thing with his volume pedal.
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sounds like you want a volume version of the much maligned gretsch "mud switch". i thought they were stupid at first, but i changed the values of the caps and now i love it. a treble bleed might fine tune things further, but i think i'm done messing with it.
as for the "mechanical solutions" guy, i made the following mods to my floater archtop that had a single volume control: i made the single knob on the pickguard a tone control, and added a little thumbwheel under the pickguard and made that the volume. then i rolled the volume off to about 8 or 9 and never moved it again. i installed a gretsch arrow knob on the tone control and rotated the knob before screwing it on so that the arrow points to my preferred tone settings. i just aim the arrow to the different screws on the pickguard to get my brighter and darker sounds. it serves the same purpose as the mud switch, but in rotary form. i only like the tones from those two positions and never used the volume anyway, though its nice to have just to kill the sound if i need to. me = awesome.
none of that was of any help to jorge, but if someone else is reading... maybe?
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Feet your solution is really good for a tone control - because with a tone control "close enough" is... well, enough. But with a volume control a little to the left or the right can make a much bigger difference!! I don't think pointers or numbers are precise enough with volume controls but well, who knows?
Thank god AMT did the LLM-1 so I can fit the volume pedal on a really small board!!
I hope this thread will help everyone who struggles with volume / tone control problems.
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maybe a volume pot with a different taper could give you a little more leeway with your sweet spot. also, i have a sneaking suspicion that volume pots are more sensitive/effective (or maybe just noticeable) when you are playing (really) loud. i say "suspicion" because i've never played loud and used quality electronics at the same time (best of times/worst of times
) so what is unimpressive to me at home or in the studio might be perfect live.
also, you are overlooking the most simple, and therefore, elegant solution of all: duct tape.
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Yeah I do play loud...
I am curious, how would duct tape work?
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find your sweet spot on the knob and duct tape to the top so doesn't move. a simple, classy, timeless look. occam's razor and all that.
for a slightly less stupid idea... if you have two volumes and remove or disable one pick up, is there a way you can wire them both to the neck pickup, and use the extant switch to toggle between them instead of the pickups? is there some kind of soldering witchery to achieve that? i have to believe there is, but i'm just guessing. maybe if the pickup has 4 leads?
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ha ha the thing is I DO have to move the knob... if not problem solved
The pedal volume solution also has the advantage of hitting ODs with 10 which is always better than 9.
Your idea is possible of course. I would rather leave the two pickups and add a second switch though.
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Does anyone have direct knowledge of the volume pot values in my 1989 Gibson ES-175? I'm almost certain they're 300k and not 500k.
The reason I ask is that my neck pup volume pot is dying a slow but certain death. I simply can't Deox-It anymore! I built a brand new harness for the guitar - 500k Bourn pots, vintage wiring and wiring cover, nice caps, took my time with the soldering and grounding, etc. It was perfect. I put it in the guitar and I hated what it did to the vibe of the guitar. It sounded great, was dead quiet, but it just wasn't the same guitar anymore. With a little modifying, I put it in my 335 and it's fantastic. I put the original harness back in the 175. However, I have to do something about that pot. I'd just like to know the value and have the new one ready to go before I pull it out. Again, I'm almost certain its 300k, but thought maybe someone might have worked on a late-80s/early-90s 175 and knows for sure.
Thanks gang!
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You could measure it and find out what it is now. It shouldn't change much, if at all, over time, from the original maximum. 500K should give you a brighter sound, and when you roll it back some you should reach 300k. The lower the reading, the darker the sound, so a 500K pot should give you a better, brighter sound. What modifications did you do to put it in the 335? Are you certain the tone pot is wired the same way it was originally? There are multiple ways of wiring the tone pot, giving slightly different effects, and they mostly all work, in that they change the tone to some degree, and allow the signal to pass, but give different tones. The correct one is the one you prefer. I tend to think a 500K pot is what you need, but you're certainly free to use whatever you like.
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Yeah, I did not like the 500k pot. Brighter is not better for me - especially on my mahogany back/side 175. Of course, rolling it back is an option, but I'd like to know what value pot Gibson was using at the time. I have used a multimeter to calculate the value of the pot while in the circuit and I'm pretty sure in 300k, but would like to know what Gibson was using at the time.
Concerning, the 335, I rewired the harness to match how it came stock.
Thanks.
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Gibson has been known to use pots with various values, including 300K, in different guitars over different years. I have no specific knowledge about your specific guitar, sorry. Perhaps someone who knows more than I do will come along with more information.
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If you noticed such a difference, it probably is the 300k /100k combination in your 175. All the late 80's Gibson's I've had have had that combination.
I assume that you made the new loom using 500k volume and 500k tone? While the 500k volume would brighten it up a little, the 500k tone control has much less impact (than 100k) on the circuit when you roll down the volume, retaining more treble. With 100k tone, highs roll off with the volume much more quickly. This is why a lot of 80's and early 90's Gibson with the 300k/100k combo have their looms changed as most people (other than Jazzers!) want to retain brightness.
Also, did you wire the 500k loom "50's" style or the "modern" way? The reason the "50's" wiring retains brightness when you roll back the volume is because in that configuration it does not bring the tone control resistance into the circuit, whereas the "modern" wiring does and will provide the effect you are used to.
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