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I'm looking at a vintage instrument (1955 ES175) that is in pretty good shape with the exception of a musty smell about the guitar. Thought someone here may have experience with this matter.
Preliminary reading about general musty smells is that it originates with mould - a growing living organism. That said, remedies such as Fabreeze merely mask the smell for awhile; baking soda merely absorbs the smell for awhile; etc. The idea is to KILL the mould.
Any wisdom to share on this?
Jsci
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04-11-2013 11:37 AM
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This is a big problem with violins because they can be considerably older than guitars. I'd look into that. It usually involves taking the top off and using dilluted vinegar. I'd check some violin or cello forums.
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I owned a 50's ES-125 that reeked of mould and cigarettes - played and sounded great!
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I know in working on houses spraying diluted bleach to kill mold.
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The smell is part of the character of the guitar. I had a friend who had a 1953 LesPaul Gold Top. Cleared the room out every time he opened the case. lololol
It's really not a problem. Some "cork sniffers" in the guitar collectors' world won't even consider buying a guitar half a centur old with out "the smell" However, if it's really a problem for you . . (and who could blame you) . . the first step in any odor control or elimination process, is source removal. Get a mirror and a light and look inside to guitar to see if it has been exposed to any water damage . . . which would have dried out and left the unprotected (unsealed) wood inside the guitar moist enough to crerate mold. If you see no signs of water damage or build up of mould . . (and I really doubt that you will) . . . . try to get your hands on an ozone generator. Put the guitar in a small enclosed area, like a closet or something. Run an extension cord into the closet, turn on the ozone generator for 2 hours . . with the output aimed directly at one of the F holes. The ozone will kill any and all mould one th outside, or in the porosity of the unsealed wood.
DO NOT LEAVE ANY LIVING THING EXPOSED TO THE OZONE!!!!! iT WILL KILL THEM TOO.
You may also want to refer to this company's web site as well.
www.nilodor.com
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Thanks all for the advice.
Patrick2: I agree the first order of business is source removal and the ozone generator sounds like an interesting solution. Have you or someone you know tried this with success?
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I'm getting vintage myself and noticing a musty smell... right now I'm draining my washer and cleaning it with bleach... hope that's it.
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Jabberwocky +1 :-) I bought an ES-175 last year and it had the same issue, I left it out of the case with a fan blowing cool dry air on it and polished the outside of the guitar with a lemon scented furniture polish, then guitar polish. It no longer smells like my Grandmother's house.
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GNAPPI
Encouraging advice. It seems this smell is somewhat normal albeit disturbing. I don't need to get it to "Mr. Clean" state but would like to minimize the "musty". Interestingly, I have a 1975 Yamaha flatop that moved from main floor to basement when I built a music room down there. The basement in the summer was very damp/humid for a couple months eash year. This guitar picked up a musty smell as well. I've since moved it back to the main floor and, although a sniff-test at the sound hole still presents the smell, it is minimal and not a problem.
If I was confident that I could get the ES175 to that point I'd pull the trigger. Or maybe I'm just making too big a fuss of this...............................
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If one of my guitars smelled like my grandmother's house . . . I'd probably try to stuff it into a big loaf of Italian bread from Pecorara's bakery, downtown Jersey City . . and eat it. She was always cooking something in garlic and olive oil. Broccolli Rabbe, sausage, meat balls, gravey . . . (yeah . . . gravey, not tomato sauce) . . . mellanzani parmagianna, etc.. That was always the smell in my grandmother's house (apartment, really. Who the hell could have afforded a house back in those days??)
Originally Posted by GNAPPI
Yeah . . that sounds great.. A nice guitar "sangwitch", on Italian bread and a big glass of guinea red.
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>This is a big problem with violins because they can be considerably older than guitars. I'd look into that. It usually involves taking the top off and using dilluted vinegar. I'd check some violin or cello forums.
violins are built with the tone bars under tension. Thus, every couple of decades the top has to be steamed off (hide glue) to install new bars. At the same time, the violins are also cleaned from the inside and new french polish is applied
That is why a refinish in the world of violin family instruments is not an issue at all. They all are regularly.
Archtop guitars are made with tone bars fitted to the curve of the top so without tension. They are not designed to allow for the top coming off . Removing the top or refinishing are huge operations which should only be done if absolutely unavoidable to perform structural repairs
>I'd probably try to stuff it into a big loaf of Italian bread from Pecorara's bakery, downtown Jersey City . . and eat it. She was always cooking something in garlic and olive oil. Broccolli Rabbe, sausage, meat balls, gravey . . . (yeah . . . gravey, not tomato sauce) . . . mellanzani parmagianna, etc..
ah we are no longer talking mold but guitars and fine food...now I am getting interested ! Almost dinner time at this side of the pond I am going home right now !Last edited by fws6; 04-12-2013 at 10:35 AM.
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and at the OP: first hoover out any dust from inside the body with a flex tube or so. As long as there is dust inside the guitar nothing will work well
For the rest I agree with the other. Leave the guitar out in the light / fresh air dont store in the case (both UV in normal light as well as fresh air are deadly to mold). Charcoal work well for the guitar too
People will also tell you baking soda and silica gel bags are good remedies - but I think only to get the smell out of the case. But not with the guitar in it you dont want to dry out / crack the instrument (even though the 175 is a lam)
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Dry uncooked rice is great for removing dust bunnies from yer unreachables!
Dust would have some skin flakes and pet hair in it <<wretch>>
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Are you sure the guitar really smells or is it the case. Perhaps leaving it out of the case for a while will diminish what the guitar has picked up from the case. A friend bought a 20-25 year old 335 from a guy who smoked; he sprayed the hell out of the case with febreze and left it open, outside in the sun for several days. That got rid of a lot of the odor.
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I once purchased a guitar that stank. Turned out it was really coming from the case and the guitar only stank because it had always been kept in the case. A good external clean up and a few days out of the case were all the guitar needed.
As for the case, I exposed it to direct sunlight in the yard for three or four days (without the guitar, obviously). After each day, it seemed like there was no change but after the last day, the smell had gone completely.
Cleaning a funky smelling case with water and white vinegar can help a lot too.
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Eddie Lang
Maybe it is more the case than the instrument. I haven't purchased the guitar yet as it worries me but maybe I'm "overthinking" it. I can abandon the case if need be. Hopefully the guitar will be manageable.
I've been doing some reading on UV light vs. mold and this sounds hopeful. UV light is used in air conditioning systems (in the ductwork) to kill mold (which I'm told is the culprit causing the smell). It seems like a much less invasive remedy than bleach, vinegar and the like. Would also be an easy solution if a small enough lite could be found (to fit in the f-holes). This solution also supports your "in the sun" method that you used for your case. Interesting.
Anyway, thanks all for the help. Maybe I should just buy a new instrument (but this 1955 model has a very cool vibe to it).
Jsci
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Is UV light safe on vintage instruments? I dont know what the exposure times would be
Just asking.
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Apologies Jsci . . . for some reason, I missed this question . . . just now noticing it. Originally Posted by Jsci
To answer you question, the success rate for removing a mold smell, when my instructions above are followed . . . is 100% . . regardless of where or what the object is. What you're smelling, are the mold spores, which become airborne and are then ingested through your nasal receptors. It doesn't smell good and it isn't healthy. . . in large doses. What's coming off of, or out of your guitar and/or case will probably not have an adverse affect on your health. But, it can be quite unpleasant.
You do not want to mask the smell, or counter act it by changing its molicular structure so it no longer "fits" into your nasal recptors. You need to kill the mold, all of it, so it no longer releases it's spores into the environment within which you breath. Some of the methods mentioned in this thread will also work. But to a lesser degree and over a longer period of time.
If you want to remedy this quickly and absolutely . . . . the only best way to do so is with an ozone generator.
By the way . . I know you would never use it on your guitar . . but, bleach does not kill mold.
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Anyone remember Ozium? All the respectable jazzers in my town had a can in the glove box (if they were lucky enough to own a car) to "freshen up" the interior smell after a winter "between sets" break. Not that I had any first-hand experience with it or anything... nevermind. I really like Patrick's O3 idea. I'd put the case and all into the closet. Here's a link to a cheap DIY O3 generator, if you're handy with a soldering iron and like electronics projects.
Don't fry yourself or burn down your house if you build this unit! It's not my design, and I can't afford to replace a vintage 175 <chuckle>, so do it at your own risk!Last edited by ah.clem; 04-13-2013 at 12:07 PM.
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I have the opposite problem - I have a relatively new Heritage archtop and would love to get a period authentic odor to match the rest of the instrument. Any advice?
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Yes . . . I have advice for you. Many gigs in an ugly, smoke filled small bar with drunk people spilling drinks on the floor . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .and . . . . . . . patience, my son . . . . . . patience. Originally Posted by JRguitar
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Originally Posted by Patrick2
Thanks Patrick2-this is what I needed to move ahead with an offer on the 175. Now the search is on for an ozone generator.......
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Is this what Zappa meant when he said jazz wasn't dead, it just smells funny?
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I recently purchased a 1949 Emperor Zephyr Regent Deluxe in its original case. Both had a really strong odor which I initially thought was mold. However, upon removing contents from the case’s storage compartment, I found a possibly-original rubber coated guitar cord that appeared to be the direct source of the smell (off-gassing of the aging, breaking down of the rubber cord). It’s possible the smells of ‘vintage’ guitars may include the old electronics of pickups, switches & knobs, plus their wiring, as opposed to mold, or could be a combo of both. I removed the cord, & still working on removing the smells, but would hate to see some of these recommended mold solutions tried, if it’s not mold at all. I plan on getting a luthier’s opinion. Originally Posted by Jsci
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Old thread I know, but a timeless problem. Here was my solution with a musty smelling 1939 Old Kraftsman archtop electric. It smelled bad -- I mean really bad. Hang it up across the room and you could still smell it. Tried a number of things but finally got tired of trying. Bought a 1/4 inch thick black foam sheet, cut out f-hole shapes and set them in the guitar. Ta-da! Problem solved. Kept them inserted for about four years, recently pulled them out and the smell is (almost) gone. Good to go without them now ... I think.
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