Cube 40 Speaker Change Problem

**strombolimusik** · 04-01-2013, 12:36 PM

Recently swapped out the stock speaker in my Cube 40 ('80's, orange cab, made in Japan model) for an Emenince Lil' Buddy. The improvement in tone was magnificent, but the noise floor is very high now. Tones are still "clean", but the background noise is way too high, esp. for recording. Anyone else had this problem ... any suggestions, solutions?
Thanks!

**0zoro** · 04-01-2013, 01:41 PM

I will get back if I have anything to donate in understanding, I will be switching speakers in a week or so in a 40xl. Wish me luck.

**strombolimusik** · 04-01-2013, 01:59 PM

Yes, please let me know, Ozoro! Which speaker will you use?

**SamBooka** · 04-01-2013, 03:18 PM

Is your amp louder and brighter with the new speaker?
I could see replacing an older broken in speaker with something that isn't broken in yet, has higher efficiency and wider frequency range sounding different. If that IS the case I would have thought you could eq out the noise... I am guessing you cant?

**strombolimusik** · 04-01-2013, 07:57 PM

Sam, you could be right. I did a recording test of both speakers, and carefully noted the ambient noise level of the amp first (unplugged), then levels with guitar plugged in. The amp volume/tone controls, mic placement, recording levels, etc. where identical in both tests. In my recording software, the db levels are pretty much even, but the nature of the amp noise is very different, with the Emenince having much more of a mid-range curve, and the stock Roland being more high-end. It's weird though, because the Emenince does seem to have more gain ... maybe it's just more responsive, or it's the mid-rangy background noise that's fooling my ears into thinking it's louder. I'm going to re-install it and check again. I'll post my conclusions here.

**DRS** · 04-02-2013, 05:44 PM

I've never heard of the "noise floor" increasing due to a speaker change. You mean the "white noise" that we all got used to with tube amps but is a lot less present in most SS amps? Are you sure you didn't bump something inside the amp or knock off a ground wire or something?

**strombolimusik** · 04-02-2013, 06:44 PM

Yes, DRS, that is what I'm talking about ... the white noise, background noise, ambient noise. I re-installed the stock speaker and it's back to normal. I will install the lil'buddy again and see what happens.

**kawa** · 04-02-2013, 07:37 PM

It' a character, stromboli.

Cause by only il'buddy's characters.

Amp Maker choice the overall characters by listening test.

http://www.eminence.com/speakers/spe...odel=Lil_Buddy

Click to view the response graph.

http://www.eminence.com/support/tone-guide/

**0zoro** · 04-06-2013, 05:31 AM

Hi Strom! I just changed speakers yesterday, installed a Eminence lil buddy. I havent had time/opprotunity to check it more but I have an increase in white noise as you reported. It is most noticeable without a guitar plugged in, but still noticeable with the guitar plugged in. What I have noted additionally is that while I used to play either in JC or Tweed channel, that I now have a very,very nice sound from the Black Panel channel. Whether it is possible to decrease the noise with the use of the EQ´s I dont know, I usually use bass 12 o´clock, mid 12, treble about 10, and dont fiddle much with them. Will have to re-check. If anyone has a suggestion as to what to do to decrease the noise plz suggest. By the way, what do I think of the tone change, in general much better. Warmer, creamier.

**oldane** · 04-06-2013, 08:13 AM

I did the same speaker swap in my old Cube40. I never noticed any increased noise, but I must admit I haven't listened for it specifically. The speaker itself can not generate noise, but a change in frequency range with the new speaker could in theory bring the frequencies of the noise more to the foreground. Treble tweeters are known to bring forth audible high frequency hiss - but of course the Lil Buddy is not a tweeter.

**pingu** · 04-06-2013, 08:21 AM

It's probably just a more efficient speaker
so maybe just makes everything inc the noise floor of the amp up
maybe 3 - 6 Db

**strombolimusik** · 04-06-2013, 10:49 AM

Ozoro, I've drawn the same conclusion ... the tone improvement is really very nice, but at the expense of increased white noise. I haven't been able to do anything about it with the EQ, but I'm going to call Eminence next week and ask if there's a solution. As I stated before, I think it's only an issue in a recording situation, esp. for solo gtr. passages. I may install the old stock speaker in a separate cabinet to have the option to switch around. But yeah, the tone is pretty awesome ... really helps a SS amp.
And pingu, I agree ... the overall gain seems to be increased, but I'm not really sure. I did a controlled recording test with the two speakers and db levels where almost the same.

**0zoro** · 04-06-2013, 11:19 AM

Strom, let me know if you find out anything from the people at Eminence. I have still not yet had any real time on the new speaker, I obviously play a lot unamplified. Still, the over all impression is vastly increased sound quality. It still does make one wonder what the cause is, both speakers are 8 ohm, they have been properly installed, no short out or reversed pos & neg wires. Why??????????????????????????? I dont know if this clearly reflects how little I know about electricity in general, and amplification in particular, but I still want to know why. Best, 0zoro

**pingu** · 04-06-2013, 02:01 PM

cos its a more efficient (ie louder for the same input) speaker

**0zoro** · 04-06-2013, 03:57 PM

Pingu thanks for your reply. What your saying is that the amp itself is producing a less than clean signal, correct? And that the chosen standard speaker hides, or compensates for this fact. Have I understood the theory? How then does one guard ones self against this kind of thing happening again? How can one know what type of signal an amp is producing prior to making and improvement and finding out it has bad side effects.

**peterpanico** · 04-10-2013, 01:00 PM

At 98.8 Db it's not an hiper efficient speaker,so it must not be that the cause,what is the original speaker like?
I think it's more a an Eq matter,the Eminence oftern are very "sparkly" and "dry" in the high end,a thing to take into account when swapping.....not all amplifiers sound goos with them.

**strombolimusik** · 04-10-2013, 02:38 PM

In my db level test the background noise was, in fact, a little less with the Eminence lil' buddy. However, the eq curve is very different with an emphasis on the lower-mids. In recording, this may (or may not) sit well in a mix, esp. with piano. I've yet to try, but when I do I'll post the results. It still sounds good with the Cube 40, just "dirtier" than I had wanted. Maybe I'll try a different speaker, or a different amp w/the lil' buddy.

**SamBooka** · 04-10-2013, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by strombolimusik

In my db level test the background noise was, in fact, a little less with the Eminence lil' buddy. However, the eq curve is very different with an emphasis on the lower-mids. In recording, this may (or may not) sit well in a mix, esp. with piano. I've yet to try, but when I do I'll post the results. It still sounds good with the Cube 40, just "dirtier" than I had wanted. Maybe I'll try a different speaker, or a different amp w/the lil' buddy.

Just curious... speaker broken in yet? No relation to the rest of the thread (OT)

**peterpanico** · 04-10-2013, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by strombolimusik

In my db level test the background noise was, in fact, a little less with the Eminence lil' buddy. However, the eq curve is very different with an emphasis on the lower-mids. In recording, this may (or may not) sit well in a mix, esp. with piano. I've yet to try, but when I do I'll post the results. It still sounds good with the Cube 40, just "dirtier" than I had wanted. Maybe I'll try a different speaker, or a different amp w/the lil' buddy.

To my knowing,the only ones that have good mids and stay balanced not too high,are the Gb but it's only a 12",the Legend wich is 10" as well as 12",and the Private Jack wich again it's only 12",I would go for a Celestion instead,choice is between G10Vintage,G10Greenback,or G10N-40,if you look at the eq graphic you'll see thy are more balanced and have no spikes above 2khz. as the Eminence have.

**nikolozj** · 04-10-2013, 05:21 PM

Different speakers have different frequency responses on different levels. Which means, if your amps original speaker was "suppressing" certain frequencies... let's say on 2khz and at same time, if your power amp, the circuit, was getting network noise or whatever noise on 2khz, then you obviously wouldn't hear that noise much on that speaker.
On the other hand if eminence's response on 2khz is pretty high, then that noise, that always existed, will be heard.

**DRS** · 04-11-2013, 10:43 AM

Go to the link below and click on the link for the Lil Buddy frequency response graph. There is a 5db increase in sound level in the 1500-2200hz zone. This is what you are probably hearing. The old speaker was probably flatter. But does it really matter? Nobody sits around listening to the white noise.
Speaker Detail | Eminence Speaker

**strombolimusik** · 04-11-2013, 11:30 AM

Thanks for all the info, everyone ... definitely getting some qualified opinions here!
@Sambuca, Nope, bought it brand new, haven't played it enough to break it in.
@Peterpanico, those are great suggestions for other speakers, I might try one of those options, maybe the G10 Vintage.
@Nikolozj, I've come to the same conclusion after doing my recording test.
@DRS, I've seen that graph before, and that's the same freq. range that shows up in the recording. I do, in fact, know some people who sit around listening to white noise (they're called metal heads!), but for my purposes, clean (but not sterile) is important for the fact that this amp is meant for the studio, for recording jazz, in a controlled environment. If it was just for live it wouldn't be an issue.

I'm building a matching cab to house the lil'buddy (or whichever 10" I choose to swap out), so I'll have some options. Cheap and easy solution. But where am I going to find "Cube orange" tolex? Hm....

**peterpanico** · 04-11-2013, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by strombolimusik

Thanks for all the info, everyone ... definitely getting some qualified opinions here!
@Sambuca, Nope, bought it brand new, haven't played it enough to break it in.
@Peterpanico, those are great suggestions for other speakers, I might try one of those options, maybe the G10 Vintage.
@Nikolozj, I've come to the same conclusion after doing my recording test.
@DRS, I've seen that graph before, and that's the same freq. range that shows up in the recording. I do, in fact, know some people who sit around listening to white noise (they're called metal heads!), but for my purposes, clean (but not sterile) is important for the fact that this amp is meant for the studio, for recording jazz, in a controlled environment. If it was just for live it wouldn't be an issue.

I'm building a matching cab to house the lil'buddy (or whichever 10" I choose to swap out), so I'll have some options. Cheap and easy solution. But where am I going to find "Cube orange" tolex? Hm....

I understand you pretty well,mate,but honestly if you try one of Celestions,you may find your spot!
They are made for the kind of sound you are after.

**0zoro** · 04-12-2013, 07:01 AM

Stromboli, I have had my Lil Buddy installed for a couple of day now. I can report that I do get a bit of "White Noise" upon turning the speaker on. This receids to the level prior to the speaker change when I put my hands on the strings, ie grounding out the circuit comprised of the guitar and amp together. I wont go into the changes in tone as you are already familiar with those. The results of the change surely did whet my curiousity as to what a switch to a celestion speaker could do to the tone profile. Best of luck and have a good weekend! 0zoro

**velja** · 03-11-2021, 06:15 PM

I replaced the speaker in mine. Removing old speaker was very hard. Bolts were stuck in the tee nuts. I spent hours dealing with that and somewhat damaged the front board. Anyway, the new speaker is on and I really like it. It is loud. I recorded before and after sounds.