Joe Pass Gibson model?

**Jackkin17** · 04-01-2013, 11:41 AM

Would anybody else want to see a Gibson Joe Pass model made? The ES 175 is the guitar most associated with Joe throughout his career, and all the artist models today are dedicated to rock guitarists and even the Jonas Brothers, I don't see how Gibson can forget about great players such as Joe and Jim

**rpguitar** · 04-01-2013, 12:06 PM

I'd prefer just to own the model guitar that one of my influences played, rather than having a "signature" model with all of the associated gratuitous cost premium.

You can still get a Larry Carlton, Tal Farlow, Johnny Smith, or Wes Montgomery Gibson if you need a jazz artist's name to be an official part of the equation.

Case in point, I have a 1957 ES-175DN, which is one year off from Pat Metheny's famous guitar (a '58). I'm not willing to remove the bridge pickup or mangle the tailpiece to mount synth drivers and such, but it's good enough for me.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 04-01-2013, 12:28 PM

Only if there was something distinctive they would change to make it the ES-175JP.

**SamBooka** · 04-01-2013, 12:45 PM

Look at what he used later... single hb.. gold hardware... and shallow body... so not the same as a 175

**Jim Soloway** · 04-01-2013, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by SamBooka

Look at what he used later... single hb.. gold hardware... and shallow body... so not the same as a 175

Such an amazing player. That was just fabulous.

**NSJ** · 04-01-2013, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

Such an amazing player. That was just fabulous.

Someone who is very close to Joe said that, prior to the time of his death, there was a special duet session set up for Joe to play with the classical guitarist John Williams. The two had apparently met and begun preliminary discussions about this album. It was also set up for Joe to play and tour with Orchestras.

Sadly, Joe died before any of this could materialize.

**Jim Soloway** · 04-01-2013, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by NSJ

Someone who is very close to Joe said that, prior to the time of his death, there was a special duet session set up for Joe to play with the classical guitarist John Williams. The two had apparently met and begun preliminary discussions about this album. It was also set up for Joe to play and tour with Orchestras.

Sadly, Joe died before any of this could materialize.

Too bad. John Williams is another incredibly musical guitarist with a much broader pallet than many people realize. I was at Joe's memorial service/concert in Los Angeles. It as one of the most remarkable events I've ever attended. Great players flew in from all over the world to play in honor of Joe and not all jazz. There was classical and flamenco. There were major stars and unknown players who were just friend Joe had made in the guitar world over the years. Just an amazing day of music and memories.

**mr. beaumont** · 04-01-2013, 01:51 PM

I'm not a huge fan of signature models...even if I like the player. I'd rather pretend someday people will associate my guitars with ME...hey, I can dream.

Plus, for the artist, endorsement or signature models can be a blessing and a curse...so I imagine some players are just fine without the "honor."

And these are the ramblings of a guy who owns a John Jorgenson signature model...

**SamBooka** · 04-01-2013, 03:10 PM

My Herb Ellis was the closest thing I could find (understand that in Montreal there isn't much choice) to what I wanted and could afford. The fact I like HE's playing is secondary (the fact that I bought the guitar on March 26 2010. The guitar was made March 25 1996. Herb Ellis passed March 28 2010 just adds to the mojo)

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 04-01-2013, 03:19 PM

On a related note, I think it's time for Fender to market a Tele aimed at jazz players. But what would be the specs?

**ooglybong** · 04-01-2013, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by SamBooka

Look at what he used later... single hb.. gold hardware... and shallow body... so not the same as a 175...

If that isn't a single-pickup ES175 (or an ES-165), then what model is he playing here?
Shallow body? I don't own either of those guitars, but this one in the video looks about the same depth as an ES-175. AFAIK.

**Bluedawg** · 04-01-2013, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by ooglybong

If that isn't a single-pickup ES175 (or an ES-165), then what model is he playing here?
Shallow body? I don't own either of those guitars, but this one in the video looks about the same depth as an ES-175. AFAIK.

IIRC he explains the guitar in one of his lesson videos ... "An Evening with Joe Pass" ... maybe

It's not a 175 ... it was made especially for him by Gibson

It it is very similar to a 175, laminated and a single pickup, but with a thinner body and maybe a little smaller bout ... as well as the single pickup

Jabberwacky probably has it right ....

Would be cool if they made a version for production

**SamBooka** · 04-01-2013, 04:29 PM

Yeah.. forgot about the pickup but when I saw one of the other RC/JP vids it struck me right away..

Point goes to JW

**docbop** · 04-01-2013, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Only if there was something distinctive they would change to make it the ES-175JP.

I worked a Yes tour and had to go get supplies at a little music store and found a ES-175 dirty cheap and bought it. When I got back to the auditorium Steve Howe was frustrated I beat him to it because it was a twin to his a 1961, he said Joe Pass's ES-175 was a 1961 also. So Gibson would just need to reissue the '61 which I remember the neck was a on the thin side as 175's go.

**ooglybong** · 04-01-2013, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

It is a thinline (3") ES-175 with the pickup placed at the end of the 20-fret fretboard. You could see Joe Pass play it in some of his '92 videos of a concert given in Germany.

As I'm watching it now, I think I can tell that it is indeed a slightly thinner body that the standard 175.
Thanks for the great video link! Wonderful performance by some masters indeed.

**ooglybong** · 04-01-2013, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by docbop

I worked a Yes tour and had to go get supplies at a little music store and found a ES-175 dirty cheap and bought it. When I got back to the auditorium Steve Howe was frustrated I beat him to it because it was a twin to his a 1961, he said Joe Pass's ES-175 was a 1961 also. So Gibson would just need to reissue the '61 which I remember the neck was a on the thin side as 175's go.

Neat story.

But in reissuing the '61, wouldn't that just be a Steve Howe model anyway? (i.e., if you wanted that "Joe Pass" '61 model, couldn't you simply get a SH signature model? IIRC, there's nothing all that unique about the SH model to begin with, mostly a few cosmetics, no?)
Hmmm. Are the Steve Howe models still available?

**mr. beaumont** · 04-01-2013, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

On a related note, I think it's time for Fender to market a Tele aimed at jazz players. But what would be the specs?

I could tell you how I'd make it!

Bookmatched Flame maple top over thinline chambered mahogany body, no F holes, no pickguard.

Single neck humbucker, strat style hardtail bridge.

Maple neck, Ebony board, no position markers, 1.75" at the nut.

Standard Fender scale (25.5")

Make it in the USA for about $1200 and they'd sell thousands.

**wintermoon** · 04-01-2013, 04:42 PM

interesting.
when I saw him a few times in the late 80s he was playing his Ibanez sig model w/the pickup too far from the end of the board. never saw him w/this 175

**ooglybong** · 04-01-2013, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Bluedawg

IIRC he explains the guitar in one of his lesson videos ... "An Evening with Joe Pass" ... maybe

It's not a 175 ... it was made especially for him by Gibson

It it is very similar to a 175, laminated and a single pickup, but with a thinner body and maybe a little smaller bout ... as well as the single pickup

IIRC, it then sounds like it was made a lot like the Ibanez Joe Pass model—except for the pickup placement (if I'm understanding Jabberwocky's point upstream in #12). The Ibanez was rather poorly-received, IIRC, by the pickup being placed closer to the bridge than on a 175. (Is that correct?) Therefore, Joe would have found this particular Gibson one-off a 'correction' of the Ibanez specs, I'm thinking. Interesting...

Originally Posted by Bluedawg

Would be cool if they made a version for production

Yeah, I'd agree if we have these specs right.
Gibson has certainly honored lesser guitarists than Mr. Pass, IMO.
But don't get me started there.

**ooglybong** · 04-01-2013, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I could tell you how I'd make it!
Bookmatched Flame maple top over thinline chambered mahogany body, no F holes, no pickguard.
Single neck humbucker, strat style hardtail bridge.
Maple neck, Ebony board, no position markers, 1.75" at the nut.
Standard Fender scale (25.5")
Make it in the USA for about $1200 and they'd sell thousands.

I bet you could already get this pretty much put together over at Warmouth.

Hmmm....

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 04-01-2013, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I could tell you how I'd make it!

Bookmatched Flame maple top over thinline chambered mahogany body, no F holes, no pickguard.

Single neck humbucker, strat style hardtail bridge.

Maple neck, Ebony board, no position markers, 1.75" at the nut.

Standard Fender scale (25.5")

Make it in the USA for about $1200 and they'd sell thousands.

I'm digging almost all of that! In fact, I'm awaiting the delivery of a new ASAT Special, and it has some of those exact options, like that neck (maple/ebony/no inlay/1.75"). I wished I'd added quartersawn to that.

I was even contemplating a thinline/no f-hole, too (which is in fact a G&L option), but my ever increasing list of options was threatening my conjugal bliss.

There's no way this would go for $1200 MIA. Maybe lose the flame top and go MIM.

**mr. beaumont** · 04-01-2013, 05:08 PM

Probably.

I did get Warmoth to make me a neck like that...So my "jazz tele" is almost complete. I'm still deciding on neck pickup...I actually really like what's there now (stock Fender pup) but I'm gradually pimping this thing...maybe a CC, but I know they're noisy...maybe a P90, maybe a standard bucker...until I'm sure the stock Fender pickup stays...no reason to change things just to change 'em.

Here's the neck on my old Am. Std. Ash body...

Sorry for the threadjack...but that's my "signature" tele...almost.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 04-01-2013, 05:22 PM

Which pickup in a Jazz Tele? To contrast most other stock Teles, I think a HB would be the obvious choice. But the coolest option would be a HB in the neck and a SC (like the CC!) either in the middle position or right next to the HB, like Tal Farlow had.

**Lezard** · 04-01-2013, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

And these are the ramblings of a guy who owns a John Jorgenson signature model...

Would that be his signature Gitane by any chance? I hear that they are better value than some of their non sig guitars.

**GNAPPI** · 04-01-2013, 07:08 PM

I personally have never bought a signature guitar because it had a signature even though I own several signature models, I bought them because they aesthetically pleased me and sounded / played the way I like them. In all honesty, if there were a signature model and an identical one WITHOUT a signature like a Steve Howe or Larry Carlton I'd take the non signature model.

Sometimes the signature becomes irrelevant... I'll bet not many current day rockers know much about Les Paul the most well known signature guitar in history. :-)

Anyway, my Epiphone Joe Pass is an early one, I consider it one of the best I own as it is.