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Hey guys, my '61 Guild Starfire just won't stay in tune. I kinda doubt the Bigsby is the culprit. I tune the guitar, play a bit, never touching the Bigsby, maybe bend a string a bit, and she's out 'o tune. Tune her up, and let her sit a day or 2, and we are back to tuning!
The tuners are the original scalloped key Grovers. When tuning, there is play in the tuner (all of them). It is disconcerting to think that I'm tuning and they may slip.
Stew-Mac has the replacement "Grover Sta-Tite 18:1" Tuners Item # 4592. Does this sound like the solution?
NOt expensive, and they are an exact replica of what's on there now, measurements are spot on.
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03-22-2013 11:00 PM
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One tip to avoid tuner slippage is to is drop the note below the pitch then tune up to the note, that gets the slack out of the tuning gear.
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That shore sounds like a nice guitar! Was the Bigsby original, or a later addition?
I don't know much about Bigsby's but I wonder if strings are catching at the nut? You could lube the nut grooves or carefully sand or file them (or have your guitar tech do it). I've never had any problem with D'Addario strings but Dave Rogers wears by SIT strings because they Stay In Tune. He is a big string bender though.
Here is a link to Dave's '61 Starfire:
Starfire II, '61 | Dave's Guitar Shop
Replacing the tuners is a relatively cheap and easy fix. Just save the old ones in case you want to sell the guitar in the future.
Btw, I think it would help to see some pics here! (Hint, hint)Last edited by Doctor Jeff; 03-23-2013 at 11:42 AM.
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Before you change any hardware check the usual culprits
Check the strings aren't binding at the nut. Like Jeff says
Replace temporarily the bigsby sping with a 3/4 by 3/4 length of copper pipe to block it off.
I always follow Doc's tune- upwards advice, even on guitars with no known issues
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Before you go replacing hardware, are you locking the strings on the post when you put them on the guitar?
Changing Guitar Strings Video | Winding Strings Around the Tuning Machine Heads
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Hello,
I've been in the habit of replacing my Grover tuners with Schaller "Grover Style" tuners, as I think the machining is of a higher standard (think Leica M series), and they are a direct replacement (no modification required).
I also agree with Jonathan about "locking" the string to the post as in the video he supplied.
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Installing strings is no problem, and SIT strings didn't do anything better than D'addarios do. The tuners DO have slack in them, much much more than any other tuners I have met, and a little bit tough to turn. So....
Stew Mac will be getting an order tonite. Thanks for your input guys - all great points........
And photos coming soon
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Here's a photo of the "Jimmy" all original except for the overspray finish (I think).
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IMO tuner replacements is just one of those things that people just LIKE to do but in 99% of the cases is pointless + harming the future value of a vintage guitar greatly when new holes need to be drilled
rarely the actual problem is the tuner, mostly is people blaming the tuner whereas they are having a set of old strings or badly cut / lubed nut
unless the worm gear is completely worn out any tuner is good to keep tune. I have several 60+ year old guitars with original tuners that hold perfectly.
Old tuners can be re-tightened, and closed tuners can even be refilled with lube easily STEWMAC.COM : Issue 20, Lubricating guitar tuners
That being said, of course if the measurements of those StewMac replacements are spot ion, there is no reason not to try. But id say a set of strings, a checkup of the nut, and tightening the screws on your old Grovers would probably do the same.
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BTW is that "Jimmy" a decal ? Or you had it inlaid ??
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Ah. Do they come with an audio rangefinder to assist fine tuning?
Originally Posted by helios
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couldn't help it)
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snark snark
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Thank you fws6. I have thought about all the implications you bring up. I am no stranger to guitars, amps and strings. These tuners have been tightened, loosened, lubed, so has the nut (which is fine). But the tuners have SLACK in them, with strings on or off, and are tough to turn, strings on and off. I am tired of fighting them, they are getting worse, and really detract from enjoying the guitar which is stellar sounding, as are its looks!
My real question is/was "does anyone have experience with the Stew-Mac replacements which are a direct re-fit"? I am VERY lucky to be able to find a direct replcmt. with the same great looks, which would bum me out if I had to change the looks of them.
The inlay (decal ???????) seriously? On a fingerboard?
It is a factory installed custom order from 1961, not my order, the original owner's. Thanks
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the only tuner i like better than Grover and Schallers is GOTOH. Check into their catalog; they have numerous models, some designed as no-drill replacements to the usual Grovers, Klusons, etc... Super smooth action and no slipping. I've since removed whatever came with my guitar and installed a Gotoh set. Keep the stock tuners in a box and put 'em back when you need to sell, no worries.
good luck!
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Yeah you can get these phoney micro-thin decals on ebay with your name that you can put over a fingerboard. Bad idea. Shouldnt have brought it up. I would touch those either. Originally Posted by Jimmy Mack
So, that is really cool as to find a guitar with your name factory-inlaid in the board !!! Or did you rename yourself after finding the guitar
If anyone ever finds an archtop with "FRANK" in the board; I'll take it !!!
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I'll keep my eyes peeled for ya!
My most excellent guitar teacher's name is Frank. He owns a '63 L5 CES and loves it so much, he bought a second, only it's a (Gibson original) cross between an L5 and a Johnny Smith. How good it can be !!! Bought it at George Gruhn's.
Funny story about my Guild: I was looking for one, played a few and was sold on them. The price locally was more than I wanted to spend, so I sat. Checking Ebay, I saw this one. It seems that in Toronto, not enough Guit. players named "Jimmy"
wanted a Guild Starfire III. The auction closed and the guitar sat. I had bid on it, but was outbidded.
After giving up, I was annoyed: "this f-----in' guitar has my name on it and I am actively looking for one" One week later, I e-mailed Toronto to see if the guitar was sold. He says: "I been tryin' to reach YOU!!!!" The winner flaked out.
So, happy ending for everyone - he sold me the guitar at a great price, I got the guitar I been searching for. Never got charged for shipping!
Even better than having my name on it - the guitar (except for the tuners) is one helluva an instrument, the kind that comes along once in a lifetime. It sounds incredibly rich and soulful, and plays like nothing else I have had in my hands in 45 years of playing.
That's the end of my story, and people think I bought it just because Ray or Dave Davies played one back in 1965!
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I got the Grover Sta-Tites today. Of course, they are not on yet, but it won't take long as they are a direct fit.
Even in my hands, there is no slack in the gears and their operation is very smooth. Should be a relief.
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