Wegen Picks: Difference between B & W?

[3625]

I'm about to order the GP250, currently have a black TF140 which I really like but want something more weighty.

Any comments regarding tonal differences between the black & white picks? or none at all?

I read on a forum someone thought the white ones were a bit more clicky/chirpy.

Appreciate any feedback, tks

[feral guitar]

the white ones are a bit brighter,
i prefer white for gypsy jazz.

[Spook410]

Aren't they both made out of exactly the same plastic?

[AlohaJoe]

I think the main difference is how hard they are to find when you drop them.

[FrankyNoTone]

I seem to think my black picks sound darker than my white picks but it could all be in my head. I believe there is a scientific explanation for this (i.e. human hearing isn't so straightforward). This wouldn't impact the audience of course.

Having said that, in some materials like celluloid, the pigment/dye can alter the physical properties beyond color. For example, it has been observed that clear celluloid decomposes faster than colored in old items.

[PTChristopher]

Just to cover the "you are kidding, right?" end of the spectrum of opinion - I have black and white Wegen Gypsy Jazz picks. I hear and feel absolutely no difference whatsoever.

With my eyes closed I do not see a difference either.

It would have been interesting if there had been reports of the white picks sounding "darker".

They are fairly click-prone, but the sound is as you'd expect from a fat hard pick, and the tip bevel fits my particular playing angle very well.

I need to try my blue V-Pick to see if it plays the blues better.

Teardrop Pro-Plec for sad songs.

And of course tortoise shell sounds slower - never tried a rabbit's foot pick,...

Chris

[Spook410]

Dunlop purple nylon for late 60's, early 70's rock.

Big, fat Clayton white acrylic triangles for weddings.

Green Tortex when I'm feeling socially conscious. Which actually should be the sustainable coconut shell Pearse's but being rational is not a prerequisite for social consciousness.

And I have always found that any tortoise recreation got me to the end of the song at about the same time as anything else.

[AlohaJoe]

Green Tortex when I'm feeling socially conscious. Which actually should be the sustainable coconut shell Pearse's but being rational is not a prerequisite for social consciousness.

You mean you don't care about the slaughter of the poor little baby Tortexes?

[FrankyNoTone]

You mean you don't care about the slaughter of the poor little baby Tortexes?

Internet grammar police chiming in here: the plural is Tortices (as in codex -> codices) and no, they are not like bananas because they turn from yellow to green as they mature. So its those who use the yellow ones that deserve our condemnation.

[AlohaJoe]

Thank you for the clarification Franky. Of course! Index/indices etc.

Which reminds me...

The Past, Present and Future all walked into a bar at the same time... it was tense.

[Philco]

Just to cover the "you are kidding, right?" end of the spectrum of opinion - I have black and white Wegen Gypsy Jazz picks. I hear and feel absolutely no difference whatsoever.

With my eyes closed I do not see a difference either.

It would have been interesting if there had been reports of the white picks sounding "darker".

They are fairly click-prone, but the sound is as you'd expect from a fat hard pick, and the tip bevel fits my particular playing angle very well.

I need to try my blue V-Pick to see if it plays the blues better.

Teardrop Pro-Plec for sad songs.

And of course tortoise shell sounds slower - never tried a rabbit's foot pick,...

Chris

Then try using a Fender pick whilst playing a Gibson guitar and a Gibson pick whilst playing a Fender.
A distortion of birth rite?
Anarchy? Perhaps.
You may confuse you audience.
Or your cat.

[FrankyNoTone]

...It would have been interesting if there had been reports of the white picks sounding "darker"...

I haven't heard of any reports like that for picks at least, but here, its clear that Mcartney sounds darker than Wonder:

And I wonder, if you played both black and white picks at the same time, will you achieve perfect harmony?

[Spook410]

[GNAPPI]

I use Dunlop Jazz III picks and the thickness and material make a difference in the sound.

The transparent models are hard and made of (I think) acrylic and the solid colors are a softer material and made of (again IIRC) nylon.

[PTChristopher]

But seriously folks,...

Does anyone know what Dunlop "Ultex" material really is? Clayton also makes a pick out of the seemingly-same sort of translucent stuff.

Chris

[3625]

I seem to think my black picks sound darker than my white picks but it could all be in my head. I believe there is a scientific explanation for this (i.e. human hearing isn't so straightforward). This wouldn't impact the audience of course.

Having said that, in some materials like celluloid, the pigment/dye can alter the physical properties beyond color. For example, it has been observed that clear celluloid decomposes faster than colored in old items.

I was thinking of how celluloid picks like fenders can sound different according to colour, especially the tortoise shells' which are brighter than others. The confetti ones can be quite dark.

Chris, you mentioned your picks are clicky - are they the 3.5mm or the 2.5? Obviously anything above 1.5mm can get clicky however I've noticed if a pick has a sharp bevel that reduces the click quite a lot. I've put a bevel on some Dunlop Jazztone 207's (approx 2mm thick) and that's cut the click/chirp by say, 50%.

I saw a wegen 3.5mm Trimus pick and the bevel didn't go sharp like on a knife blade (and my tf140), does anyone know if the 2.5mm wegens go to a sharp edge? Thanks to all who have responded thus far, plectrum obsession is a bit of hobby of mine...

[PTChristopher]

>>> Chris, you mentioned your picks are clicky - are they the 3.5mm or the 2.5?

They are nominally 3.5 mm.

The black one is actually 3.45 mm and the white is 3.6 mm.

>>> I've noticed if a pick has a sharp bevel that reduces the click quite a lot. I've put a bevel on some Dunlop Jazztone 207's (approx 2mm thick) and that's cut the click/chirp by say, 50%.

I'll fool with the bevel on some of my other picks to see if I can cut the click some.

Pro Plecs are very un-clicky - but also soft on the surface. Ultex pics are nearly as click-free as Pro Plecs, but much harder on the surface. Go figure.

Chris

[Spook410]

But seriously folks,...

Does anyone know what Dunlop "Ultex" material really is? Clayton also makes a pick out of the seemingly-same sort of translucent stuff.

Chris

Probably polyetherimide, C₃₇H₂₄O₆N₂)_{n. From the manufacturer:}
Ultem resins are used in medical and chemical instrumentation due to their heat resistance, solvent resistance and flame resistance. Ultem 1000 (standard, unfilled polyetherimide) has a high dielectric strength, natural flame resistance, and extremely low smoke generation. Ultem has high mechanical properties and performs in continuous use to 340°F (170°C). Ultem 1000 has a thermal conductivity of 0.122 W/(m*K).

Regrettably, string clickiness was not considered among the attributes.

[PTChristopher]

Any idea where I can buy some of the material?

Chris

[PTChristopher]

Ah, found some. Expensive, but maybe worth getting some.

Thanks.

[Spook410]

Graingers has 12"X12" sheets. Pricey in 1/8" ($73.50 plus shipping) and I don't know if pick manufacturers use this, some variation, or something completely different. Probably a decent chance this is what they use though. Just think, you could be the first on your block with 3mm ultem picks in your preferred shape. (ULTEM Sheet, PEI, Amber, 1/8 In T, 12x12 In - Plastic Sheets, Film, and Flat Stock - 1NRC5|GRA2503001006 - Grainger Industrial Supply)

Some rather thicker blocks..

[FrankyNoTone]

I've been tempted myself to order from here for some experiments:

Ultem 1000 Solid Sheet, Meets ASTM D5205 PEI0113 Specifications, Natural, 0.06" Thickness, 12" Width, 12" Length | AmazonSupply.com

Ultem 1000 Sheet, Meets ASTM D5205 PEI0113 Specifications, Natural, 0.09" Thickness, 12" Width, 12" Length | AmazonSupply.com

As far as the pick noise...

I think most of what we hear is actually from the pick itself as it acts like a drum head when the string strikes it. I've observed a good correlation between the drop test (drop pick on hard surface like a desk) and the amount of pick noise.

In addition, the flex of the pick and the meat of your fingers acts as a damping mechanism so that needs to be taken into account.

Put it all together and some of this noise will be present in the string as in-harmonic vibrations on the attack and then the pickup will detect it.

[Eddie Lang]

Graingers has 12"X12" sheets. Pricey in 1/8" ($73.50 plus shipping) and I don't know if pick manufacturers use this, some variation, or something completely different. Probably a decent chance this is what they use though. Just think, you could be the first on your block with 3mm ultem picks in your preferred shape. (ULTEM Sheet, PEI, Amber, 1/8 In T, 12x12 In - Plastic Sheets, Film, and Flat Stock - 1NRC5|GRA2503001006 - Grainger Industrial Supply)

Some rather thicker blocks..

There's a cheaper way. After reading a thread on this forum last fall where the original poster had laminated picks with super glue, I did the same, using three 1.20mm large triangle Clayton Ultem which I then shaped more or less like a Wegen Twin, but with a more accentuated bevel, a bit like the "speed bevel" on a Red Bear Style A Heavy. Pretty cool pick, didn't cost much and it took about 20 minutes or so. I use it when I want or need a 3.5mm pick. And I won't care as much if I loose as if I lost a Wegen...

I could try to post a pic of it tomorrow.


I've been a big fan of the Clayton Ultem 1.20mm Small Teardrop for a while now, but a couple months ago, I was at Long & McQuade to buy a few Dunlop Jazz III and next to them, there was some Traynor Tortex Jazz 1.5mm picks. I bought packs of each, but I adopted the Traynors right away and they are the ones that I use the most now (when I don't just play with my fingers)

http://www.long-mcquade.com/products...12_-_1_5mm.htm


Here are a few that can be found in my tin of "regular" picks (well, among these, I mostly use #2-6, 9 and 12, really):
1. Dunlop Jazz III
2. Traynor 1.5 mm
3. Clayton Ultem Gold 1.20 mm small teardrop
4. Wegen Bigcity
5. Wegen Twin
6. Wegen Fatone
7. Wegen TF 140
8. Golden Gate
9. Dawg
10. Blue Chip 40
11. Red Bear TT-XH
12. Red Bear Style A Heavy

[Eddie Lang]

If some of you are interested, I posted a review of various pics last year on my website.

Plectrums - Review

It was way before my laminated Ultem experiment and also before I found the Traynor picks, so these are not mentioned.

[Spook410]

Laminated Ultem experiment.. oh yea. It's winter in the mountains and too cold to hang out in the garage to make some more right now. Those picks actually do work pretty well though. Found that clamping in a vise between leather bits helped spread the glue better. Also polishing on a felt wheel with rouge after the bevel was applied made them work better for me.

Franky.. the .09" is 2.25mm. How would you cut it into shapes?