Fender SF Princeton non-reverb or DRRI?

**Gabe** · 02-12-2013, 11:59 AM

Hi guys, I've recently been looking for a smaller tube amp that has a decent level of clean headroom. At the moment I have a Rivera Chubster 55, which although quite nice is a little too large for me. I have recently got a line on a silverface non-reverb princeton, what I'm wondering is your opinion on how loud these are and how it would compare to a Deluxe Reverb Reissue, which are easy to find secondhand.

One thing to consider is that if I were to purchase either amp I'd be looking at fitting an Eminence speaker (10" Ragin Cajun or 12" Cannabis Rex) to increase the volume and clean headroom.

The volume level I'm looking to match is that of my Polytone MBII from the early 80s. The volume of that at around halfway is just about perfect for the things I do, however I'm looking for a tube tone to match it.

**dmorash** · 02-12-2013, 12:12 PM

I can vouch for the DRRI. I have a Cannabis Rex in mine as well. Just a well balanced sound that I never tire of. I like the onboard reverb a lot as well (I only use a little)I can't compare it to the others but the only consideration I have is the Deluxe is not really a small amp and a Princeton is a more manageable size for coffee houses and restaurants etc..

**Insufferable_Rhythm** · 02-12-2013, 12:24 PM

The non-reverb Princeton is, in my experience, a very quiet amplifier. If you're willing to forsake the amplifier's tremolo, the circuit can be modified to be as loud as the Princeton Reverb.

Though, if you're trying to keep up with a Polytone, the DRRI is a better choice.

**mr. beaumont** · 02-12-2013, 12:26 PM

Non reverb princetons are clean essentially dimed...but not loud. Much better for practice or really small solo gigs. Cool amps, though.

**SamBooka** · 02-12-2013, 12:28 PM

small solo gigs are the limit for princetons.
Even PRs take some upgrading to get them to cut the mustard.
DRs are a different beast even if the difference in power is slight.

**Gabe** · 02-12-2013, 12:31 PM

Ok so it looks like the Princeton would be too quiet even with an efficient speaker?

**Insufferable_Rhythm** · 02-12-2013, 12:35 PM

I ran one with an Eminence Red Fang and it was still pretty quiet.

**Gabe** · 02-12-2013, 12:37 PM

No worries then I'll keep my eye out for a good deal on a Deluxe Reverb. Are they not enough to keep up in even a trio or quartet?

**D.G.** · 02-12-2013, 06:13 PM

My PRRI with Red Fang is about as loud as a stock DRRI. And it depends on the volume of your trio/quartet

Also, if you're one of those kinds of players who keeps the volume knob on the guitar turned down, then a Deluxe might not have enough volume either.

**jorgemg1984** · 02-12-2013, 07:05 PM

If you don't like grit the DRRI might no be enough... and I find RI amps to have an harsh treble compared to older Fenders.

**hans halmackenreuter** · 02-12-2013, 09:07 PM

there is also a non-verb deluxe the bf deluxe, which is a killer amp but hard to find. i never really understood why they aren't producing them anymore, because it's a clean amp and in my opinion the spring reverb is nothing i want to use for jazz, but that is just taste.

**hans halmackenreuter** · 02-12-2013, 09:12 PM

and if you think that a drri could have to much grit for your needed volume, you can always change preamp tubes to lower the gainfactor.

**yebdox** · 02-12-2013, 09:58 PM

Lots of nice options with Rick at Vintage Sound: Vintage Sound Amps ? Point to Point, Hand Wired, Vintage Correct AB763 Blackface Tube Amplifiers

I have the 35 watt upgrade from his standard Deluxe, as well as a Showman converted to a blackface twin... Both beautiful amps, solid, great tone and headroom. My next amp will probably be a 1x12 20 watt "Princeton" from Rick, although I don't need it. He can build you something similar to Kreisberg's long standing rig, although I think he changed his set up recently. Both Rick and David Allen (Allen Amplification - Quality Tube Guitar Amps, Kit, Parts, and Repairs) are great people to deal with... I'm always looking for an excuse to send people their way.

**Franz 1997** · 02-13-2013, 08:57 AM

The SF Princeton can vary from a very quiet amp in original 10" Oxford format to an amp that is louder than a stock DR, by modifying the circuit and adding a very efficient 12" speaker like the C Rex. This arrangement can produce the same SPL level as a 40W amp with a less efficient, stock speaker. Many players have modified SF PRs and PR reverbs, because it's such a useful sized small package, and SF amps are easy to work on, being hand-wired.

I'd say that a modified SF PR could compete with a Polytone, though not a PR in original condition. I've used a ( modified as above) SF PR in a band with a full horn section, so I'd imagine trio work would be fine. The loudness gain produced by installing a 102db speaker like the 12" C Rex is astonishing. I'd imagine the original speaker was a 95 db unit at best.

SF PRs and DRs ( and Vibroluxes) have really gone up in price, and to some extent this is due to them being such good portability/ volume compromises.

Don't think these comments would necessarily apply to the reissue PR though, which are much more difficult to modify

**bmw2002** · 02-13-2013, 09:18 AM

My little tone machine is a 1970 Princeton non-reverb with a 10" tone tubby speaker. The baffle is easily replaced with one cut out for a 12" speaker (I use a Weber California).