Jazz on a Gretsch Guitar?

[fws6]

>It's stock.

no it isnt. The color obviously is original (it is the model 6125), and the filtertron / ebony board like you say dates it to the years '59-'61 indeed. These came with one or with two pickups (the two pickup is the 6118)

Other than that very little is original to the guitar. Besides it was converted with the addition of that extra pickup / switch/tone pot; also the tuners, pickup rings, and bridge are changed, and it has an added pot the upper bout (and obviously the guard is missing).

>Tell me what you think of that Bigsby...

The anniversary model never had a Bigsby from the factory. Many gretsch owners have put on a Bigsby later it is the most common mod on any Gretsch. The particular bigsby with the crossbar which was put on your guitar is the B7 model which was meant for solidbodies and thinline guitars (ES 335 etc). It is also used a lot as aftermarket part on guitars that have a too low neck angle to fit the 'regular' Bigsby B6 (like Neil Youngs 1953 Les Paul goldtop that he painted black).

>You'll see the selector switches move a lot


No they do absolutely not. Show me any of those pictures. On a double pickup anniversary the switches are never straight next to each other but placed under an angle. The tone knob is never underneath the f hole.

Once again it is no biggie either. The majority of the single pickup gretsches (single anniversaries, streamliners, pre-62 tenneseans) get modded with a second pickup (and a bigsby) sooner or later. Value wise these conversions are almost bringing the same as the original doubles do, as they are more useful to most players.

Good for you you sold it for so much money. If you dont believe me log in to Gretsch Discussion Pages: Vintage Gretsch Guitars | The Gretsch Pages and post a pic. Many people out there know these guitars very well

Here's a couple of mine (all gone by now):

[fws6]

Here's a couple more from my old stash including second from the right - yes - a single anniversary modded with a second pickup !!!

[feet]

i feel like i've been over this a million times with you people

long story short, if you can't, you're doing it wrong. but if you insist on doing so (and you specifically insist on "jazzing" with it), it would behoove you to consider changing the bridge, pots and caps, if not the pups as well. and since some of you a prejudiced, the bigsby, too. be that as it may, they are perfectly lovely and functional guitars stock, which are more capable and versatile than people give them credit for. detractors tend to be tied to a certain sound, if not look as well. personally, i like mine with supertrons, but powertrons are the most paf-y tv jones option.

and of course, they did and do still make acoustic archtops as well, which are also awesome and perfectly suited for this sort of thing.

the current terada/fmic generation (2003-ish-present) is all gold. in many cases, better than the originals. pre 2003 mij isn't necessarily bad, but fender really standardized the process; some nutty things happened before they arrived. as for the vintage ones, they are (apparently) sort of a crapshoot, varying from transcendent to garbage. many of the build quality issues can possibly be attributed to (rumored) widespread alcoholism at the plant back in the day (no, really). or, depending on your perspective, mojo.

[Philco]

Here's a couple more from my old stash including second from the right - yes - a single anniversary modded with a second pickup !!!

Brings back memories. I used to have a Rock Jet….looked similar I think to your black one front left. It was a 60's I think…..although it had some big old strange looking tremolo on it……don't think it was a Bigsby….maybe it was. At the same time I had a 70's reissue White Falcon. That was a complete dog and I sold it. I also had at the same time a 67 ……well whatever the orange one is at the back 3rd from left (Tennessean?) …..exactly like that. It even had some flame maple. Great, great guitar. At the same time I had a dark brown Southern Belle….I think it was 60's but I could be wrong. Nice guitar as well. I loved those Gretsch's. I wasn't playing jazz on them though. I used to play some very loud gigs with the orange one. It had the round leather patch on the back and you could unclip it and see that the guitar you paid many thousands of dollars for appeared to be made out of packing crate and balsa wood. Best to leave the leather cover on and maintain the mojo! I sold it for $5500 about 10 years ago. Kind of wish I still had that one.
I do have a soft spot for Gretsch's.
Great photo BTW.

[fws6]

The one on the front left is a duojet, the later rocjets were based on the duojets but slightly different in shape. The Jets didnt have a bigsby from the factory (although often one gets added - see discussion above). If your rocjet had a different looking vibrato , maybe it had the one made by Burns UK. A bit triangular shaped and a black plastic on the handle right. Look very different indeed, and you see a lot of those on late 60s gretsches

the third one is a Chet Atkins Nashville 6120. ( not a tenny, the tenny is the brown single cutaway like George Harrison had) The orange 6120 was a single cutaway from 54 to 61, and in 62 turned into a Thinline double cutaway

build quality is like you say, balsa wood and shipping crate. Bad neck sets in the 50s , bad bindings in the 60s, and bad everything in the 70s ;-)

Like feet says, you can get a decent jazz tone out of it. But it is not the territory they are really at home in. The filtertrons have a very low output , and tend to do twang much easier that to get a nice warm thick round Wes tone. Any Gibson ES175 / L5 (-clone) is going to get you there much faster

then again take a look at Joe Pass playing on his Fender Jaguar. If you can get the jazz sound, you can get it on any instrument....

i sold all of my Gretsches when my musical taste shifted from being slightly rockabilly obsessed to getting more and more into jazz. I dont own any of the guitars in those pics anymore. If you like Gretsch check out the book by Ed Ball. A very well documented book on every nut and bolt that you will see on Gretsch. Full color with 100s of great pictures too (several of my old guitars are in it ). Ed Ball also regularly writes pieces for VG magazine, Premier guitar etc. on Gretsch he really knows his stuf

[Greentone]

Buddy Fite used to perform and record with a 6120 Nashville. He got a great sound out of it. For years, I also played one of the early Nashvilles--'64, I think. The neck Filtertron pickup sounds great on that guitar. Playability was great, too.

The best sounding and playing Gretsch electric I ever played was a Country Club. This was a serious jazz guitar. I regret not buying that guitar to this day.

For acoustic guitars, I use a 1950 6015 Synchromatic as a backup for my old Gibson L50. The Gretsch is a very comfortable guitar with a great neck. It is a tremendous rhythm guitar for old, four-to-the-bar chords.

[barrymclark]

I have a late 60's Gretsch 6120 double cut that I think sounds very nice for jazz. It took some work but I got it there. ....just in time to be getting out of my hollow body phase....of course.

[Greentone]

barrymclark,

I have owned two double-cut 6120s. The first was a '64 with a Melita bridge. It was a sweet guitar. The second was a '67 with the regular bar bridge. I always thought that they both were just fine for jazz on the neck Filtertron. I lucked out with both guitars--neither ended up with the dreaded binding rot or glue issues that seems to plague the 60s Gretsches. I sold both guitars to friends who have enjoyed them for years.

I ended up moving on to an ES-335 for the work I was doing with the 6120. As much as I enjoy the 335, I must confess that I miss the Gretsch. They are just two very different guitars.

[barrymclark]

barrymclark,

I have owned two double-cut 6120s. The first was a '64 with a Melita bridge. It was a sweet guitar. The second was a '67 with the regular bar bridge. I always thought that they both were just fine for jazz on the neck Filtertron. I lucked out with both guitars--neither ended up with the dreaded binding rot or glue issues that seems to plague the 60s Gretsches. I sold both guitars to friends who have enjoyed them for years.

I ended up moving on to an ES-335 for the work I was doing with the 6120. As much as I enjoy the 335, I must confess that I miss the Gretsch. They are just two very different guitars.

Indeed they are. Mine was a basket case and I built it back up. The neck is a TV Jones Powertron so it has a nice roundness to the tone. I have a wooden bridge and dropped the Bigsby for a Caddy tailpiece. Really is a nice hollow.

[Flat5]

Mickey Baker in action on a Gretsch...

[TheGrandWazoo]

Cal Collins...

Dan Duffy told me that he was a student of Sal's and that he got him the job at Gretsch. I believe at one time Gretsch sold more guitars than Gibson and Fender combined.

An important thing to remember is that Gretsches (especially today's) are considered to be electric guitars first and acoustic(hollow) second. Their use of trestle bracing and laminates was to reduce feedback as the market demanded guitars that could halde playing at louder and louder volumes. Even Chet had them stop putting in f-holes in one of the designs as he wanted to stop feedback.

My only two guitars are a Bonde CC and Custom built MIJ 6120. Great for jazz great for rock great for country.

[DonEsteban]

Must admit, never played one.

Obviously they do not sound like "Jazzeros" want them to sound.

Anybody can confirm or enlighten?

Curiously... :-)

[Greentone]

For years I played jazz on a pair of 60s Gretsch Nashvilles. (A '64 and a '67) never used the Bigsbys. I thought they sounded very jazzy on the neck Filtron. All together I had one or the other for 25 years and would frequently perform in a jazz trio with the '67 instead of my ES-175.

For years, I also had a '50/'51 Synchromatic that I played. It was a LOUD acoustic archtop--good for rhythm guitar.

[abelljo]

It depends on the model. They are just mostly associated with rockabilly, especially with the large f holes. But the country club, especially the older models are nothing short of a great jazz archtop! The older Dearmond sound great and the filtertrons sound very clear, the only complain is the filtertrons lose punch when lowering the volume. But, I'm sure if you played a Gretsch you would probably like it.

I think that like with everything else there is a aura of association with the Gretsch brand that make many jazz players stir away. The Bigsby tailpiece in many models does not help either. Van Eps used the 7 string model bearing his name.

I think gretsch's combine fendery tones in an archtop format. Very twangy and cool, but not what jazz guitarist would consider a jazz sound nowadays. I've owned a bunch of Gretsch guitars.

[neatomic]

sal salvador, brad shepik, bucky pizzarelli,mickey baker, harry volpe all used gretsch

here's django



dearmond dynasonic is great jazz pup...gibson cloned it for their classic alnico v staple...filtertron can do nice jazz too

don't jump to conclusions!! hah

cheers

[GNAPPI]

dunno why either... I don't understand it. In some cases all that stands in the way of a GREAT sound associated with jazz is a pup change. Removal of the bigsby goes a long way to remove the image associated with Gretsch too.

My Anni will stand side by side with most any git made plus many are still being made in Japan by craftsmen at a reasonable price point.

Even some of the ridiculously inexpensive 5000 series electromatics are superb. I have a 5120 that the PO replaced the pups and pickguard removed the bigsby and it's a joy to play. For $450 SHIPPED WITH Case! Add to that my four Gretsch hollowbodies are some of THE most acoustically lively I own... that says a lot.

Like i said up front I do not understand the unwillingness to go Gretsch. Players will spend 3x more on another brand swap everything out and STILL not be happy.

[jads57]

Most Gretsch guitars are laminate construction and tend to have brighter sound. Their p/ups also contribute to their overall brightness as well! They definitely cut through the mix, but they always felt cheap compared to Gibson's laminates. The most recent Custom Shop offerings built by Steven Stern are definitely a cut above the older Gretsch guitars!

[docdosco]

dunno why either... I don't understand it. In some cases all that stands in the way of a GREAT sound associated with jazz is a pup change. Removal of the bigsby goes a long way to remove the image associated with Gretsch too.

My Anni will stand side by side with most any git made plus many are still being made in Japan by craftsmen at a reasonable price point.

Even some of the ridiculously inexpensive 5000 series electromatics are superb. I have a 5120 that the PO replaced the pups and pickguard removed the bigsby and it's a joy to play. For $450 SHIPPED WITH Case! Add to that my four Gretsch hollowbodies are some of THE most acoustically lively I own... that says a lot.

Like i said up front I do not understand the unwillingness to go Gretsch. Players will spend 3x more on another brand swap everything out and STILL not be happy.

My understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that Peerless built Gretsch for decades until Gretsch went to China mid 2000's to get cheaper building costs. Peerless still builds all the models they had produced for Gretsch under the Peerless name now. Different headstock, inlay, and some small design differences. Some models do make great jazz guitars. Depends what you are looking for in sound and feel.

News - Peerless Guitars Co Ltd

Not all Gretsch were Peerless built. The custom shop stuff went to elsewhere. But Peerless built the lion's share for quite a while....

[MaxTwang]

Gretsch's have a 'mud' switch for a reason!

[rhoadsscholar]

I recently purchased a 1959 Gretsch Double Anniversary, the real deal. These Filteron Humbuckers are great and the bracing and top (rather thick) has its own unique vibe. I am a huge Brian Setzer fan (at 6' 8"" ) and mostly a rocker, but I hope to do this guitar some "JAZZ JUSTICE". The neck is nice and wide and a slightly shorter scale makes for a nice clean tone. Lately, I have been playing it through a 1972 Princeton reverb with a 12"" speaker and love the tone I get for jazz. I am a rocker by trade but working on my Jazz chops. I aquired it through HardCore Pawn and they did an episode about this guitar (serial numbers were changed to protect the innocent guitar(s)).

Here is a Picture, along with the episode. Hoping to do a video soon of the amazing tone this 1959 gretsch can produce.



HardCore Pawn EPISODE

http://hardcorepawn....seths-soft-side

[GNAPPI]

All of the model numbers in the 6000 range are still made in Japan unless Peerless is marking them made in Japan My anni 6118 is MIJ

[neatomic]

gretsch wasnt around for years! after 70's baldwin era...mid 90's returned, and in early 2000's signed deal with fmic (fender)..since then, pro line is made by terada in japan..electromatics were korean made...now things changing with streamliner line..tho i've played a few of those and they are super nice for a budget guitar...set up out of the box is mindboggling


hopefully one of my bretheren from the gretchpages will jump in with complete facts

cheers

[KirkP]

At one time Gretsch had a reputation for material problems. The only Gretsch I've owned was a 1950s Duo Jet with a twisted neck and binding falling off. But The main reason Gretsch wasn't popular for jazz may have been marketing and cosmetics.
http://www.guitarhq.com/gretsch.html

[docdosco]

All of the model numbers in the 6000 range are still made in Japan unless Peerless is marking them made in Japan My anni 6118 is MIJ

Peerless don't make any anymore. I don't know year the production stuff went to China, but it was 2000 something. Gretsch were also made in Japan. I just can't recall the factory. If they are still made in Japan, I think that is/was the higher end stuff. The budget stuff is still made in China, I believe.

When Gibson asked Peerless to relocate their factory to China in 2005 (which they didn't) and when Fender (Gretsch) took their work to China also, Peerless launched it's own line.

So I seem to recall....

Edit... There it is in another post, Terada in Japan

[Zigracer]

Gretsch pro lines are made in Japan at the Terada factory and have been since Fred Gretsch resurrected the brand. Electromatics are made in Korea. Gretsch guitars are great for jazz. I can't figure out the anti-Bigsby sentiment.