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To the V-neck haters: Loar is copying the 16" Gibson archtops of the 20s and 30s. Every one that I have played, and the one I own, have a pronounced V to the back of the neck. This is most especially true on the mahogany necked archtops in the old, pre-war Gibson lineup.
As far as playability goes, the V in the neck actually is very helpful if you adopt a thumb over fretboard style of playing (chording). This was the dominant rhythm style back in the day for the guys who were chunking out four to the bar chords. There is no loss of movement and rhythm in going from the minor-7th to the ninth to the dominant-7th in a II-V-I turnaround if you use the left thumb. This is facilitated with the neck carve of the pre-war guitars.
After playing a V-necked Gibson L-50 for the last 41 years it has become an utterly effortless proposition. The Loar feels very much like this guitar--but has a maple neck, IIRC. I thought The Loar was an absolute bargain.
Side note: for the same reason stated above the V-neck on a 50s Stratocaster facilitates Curtis Mayfield/Jimi Hendrix-style playing--you just have to get that thumb into business to do what Mafield and Hendrix were doing.
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11-05-2014 10:43 PM
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That's pretty true, except for the magical year of 1928, which for some obscure reason lost to history, the L-5 has a beautiful "C" shape that's completely smooth and devoid of the vee. It's pretty bizarre to go changing up the neck profile from year to year like they did, and today the internet would go nuts complaining about it.
Originally Posted by Greentone
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Unrepentant V-neck hater here. Plenty of Loars to try in the local shops, but I just can't get past the neck. I don't care much for the tiny frets either. There was one came in by accident with a C neck -- it was OK. I'll go Gibson or Eastman or Godin or Ibanez any day of the week over these. Just not my cuppa tea.
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I'm surprised to hear that there were so many to try in one area (your area). The irony is that I couldn't find many to try, and the company is located in Hayward Ca, which is a short drive from my house. They would not let me come over to see product.---both aggravating and strange....do they want to sell them or not? Originally Posted by Longways to Go
3 times I had to go to the far ends of reasonable distance to drive to see just one guitar! (one guitar per trip).
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I've had my LH-600 for about 4 months now. Before purchasing, did the research and saw all the issues concerning the V-neck, shallow neck angle and quality concerns. Ended up getting mine used and couldn't be happier.
As was pointed out earlier, the guitar is patterned after a 1920s-30s Gibson. Knowing that, the V-neck has not been an issue for me. As for quality, I've had no issues with the guitar that aren't remedied by a visit to a good tech. And, most of us are going to do that anyway.
For those looking to add a floating pickup though, the neck angle could present a challenge. Clearance between the body and strings is limited towards the neck. I was looking to add the floating Charlie Christian p/u that Vintage Vibe offers.
Long story short: That didn't work. Not VV's issue. Mine for not measuring. Caveat emptor. Measure first. And then measure again. And if you are like me, measure a couple of more times.
Faced with scrapping my plan for a budget ES-250 or doing the unthinkable (insert scary music), I opted to have the traditional CC p/u mount which meant cutting into the top (and building the p/u carriage for the floating CC).
Here's what I ended up with. Pickguard is temporary. I found a NOS cellulose tortoise sheet on ebay that I'll use for a new guard (when a free weekend presents itself) . Not for everybody but for me, and capturing "that" vibe, there is not a better value out there.
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Hanktz,
That's a great solution. The Gibson didn't get an elevated finger board extension until 1939. Putting a neck pickup on requires a CC like that.
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Originally Posted by hanktx
The great Kent Armstrong floaters do fit. I've had both the single coil and humbucker pickup installed on my LH-600.
Installed them myself, no problems (but I indeed had to measure thing more than once
Like that CC pickup a lot on yours. Nice to see another blonde Loar
Here's mine:
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I love what you've done there. This configuration is what I hoped to do one day but my modded Squier Tele covers that desire.... Originally Posted by hanktx
I've had my LH-600 for about 4 months now. Before purchasing, did the research and saw all the issues concerning the V-neck, shallow neck angle and quality concerns. Ended up getting mine used and couldn't be happier.
I opted to have the traditional CC p/u mount which meant cutting into the top (and building the p/u carriage for the floating CC).
Here's what I ended up with. Pickguard is temporary. I found a NOS cellulose tortoise sheet on ebay that I'll use for a new guard (when a free weekend presents itself) . Not for everybody but for me, and capturing "that" vibe, there is not a better value out there.
So what is the tone like? Comparable to the Gibbo?
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Please, is the bracing in X or parallel in the 600LH ?
Thanks.
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"...Like that CC pickup a lot on yours. Nice to see another blonde Loar"
Thanks. Your posts from a while back convinced me the pickup solution would work. Had I not been set of the Charlie Christian, the KA would have been the perfect solution.
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Bracing on the LH-600 is parallel. That made cutting the top and installing the CC a much simpler task than with X bracing. If I'm not mistaken the LH-650 and other Loar cutaways are X braced. There is a youtube video of an Irish luthier installing a CC on a LH-650 and it required additional reinforcement of the bracing. Originally Posted by jazzkenny
RE: tone. Is it on par with an 80 year old Gibson in the right hands? Purely subjective I know, but for me the electrified tone is in that early Gibson ballpark. And for being in under $1000 for the whole project, I'm satisfied.
But, I also think that it's dependent on the amp. I'm using a Tweed 5e5 clone and recently picked up a Vintage 47 Supro Spectator clone. With those amps, and the CC pickup, I can dial up something very CC like or T-Bone Walker when the mood strikes. Cleans are what you would expect of a Jimmy Raney or Barney Kessel sound.
Works well for Jump Blues and Western Swing too. Which is to say that short of my limitations as a player, I've got the early electric tones covered.
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Interesting...I was pretty sure they were all parallel braced.
Eastmans in general are X braced. If you play a Loar and Eastman side by side the difference in tone and volume is remarkable.
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I could be wrong on the cutaway's bracing and have not seen one in person. But, I do have an Eastman 810 and can attest to the tonal differences between that guitar and the Loar. Completely different animals. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Thanks hanktx !
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Agreed on tonal differences between the two brands...I pref'd the '650 to a '910. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
No, the LH650 is X-braced. A month ago there was an LH650 on ebay...a rare blonde, that someone installed a Gibson humbucker in. I peaked under the hood of mine, and sure enough, there's plenty of spacing between the top bracing to install a humbucker. I passed on the guitar, as the seller didn't have any info on the install...that guitar sold for $750.
Acquire one used that has had all of its issues addressed.
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actually one of the features of the Gibson Style 5 line [L-5, F-5, H-5, K-5] was an elevated board. Originally Posted by Greentone
in '39 the L-5 and Super 400 went back to flush w/the top, then back to elevated again in '40
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'27 as well...... Originally Posted by rpguitar
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Yes, wow. I had no idea my LH-650 was X braced until now! And you know, until recently, I thought all Eastman solid-wood guitars were X-braced, including my own 904. Just a couple weeks ago, a luthier and I discovered that the ear-busting, oval-hole archtop is actually parallel-braced. The braces aren't really parallel, as they swerve a bit to bypass the oval hole, but one thing's a fact: they don't intersect. No "X" brace - it's two tone bars.
Now I also happen to be a fan of The Loar guitars. Their amazing loudness - and "woodiness" - are two of the main reasons I dig them so. The solid wood, no-cut Loars are parallel-braced, as we've already established here, and they have big-ass necks, and they're loud as hell.
And though the Loars are awfully loud, the Eastman 904, is louder. I think I've owned it a couple of years now, and it really has opened up a good deal. (Some say the 904s don't open up; I gotta disagree.)
Couple of pics, just for the heck of it:
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I never played a acoustic archtop just electrics, so what's the difference in sounds between an acoustic archtop and flattop guitars.
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Doc,
I own a Gibson and a Gretsch acoustic archtop. They are different in both attack and sound from my two flattops. In each case the archtop has a cello like neck angle with strings high above the body at the bridge. This produces a louder sound than with a flattop. Yet the attack of the note is immediate followed by a sharper decay than with a flattop. It is jazzier...more clinical. ..with a natural reverb.
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Thanks I recently traded my flattop and thought maybe replace with archtop acoustic. Sounds like I should checkout a Loar my next trip into town. Originally Posted by Greentone
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Just FYI: the Pre 1920 L-4 (archtop with sound hole rather than F holes) I tried in the same shop next to the 1937 L-5, Prewar Broadway, and 1950s Super 400, was louder than all of them---and the Loar. In fact, I commented on it to the shop owner and we both agreed that if it were just about volume, there was no need to go to F holes, and lamented "why aren't we still making these...they're great".----I know the answer to that is production cost.
@docbop: the topic of projection always comes up in discussion about archtop vs flatop. It's hard to imagine that a Dreadnought or Jumbo J-200 could fill a whole room with sound, but historically be deemed as not having projection. ---I'm guessing the much fuller bass response and longer sustain muddied up the ensemble? For the style of the day, the archtop F hole guitars with bright attack and short sustain might cut through better when playing 4 per bar. I think the volume of the attack is the main difference...for jazz anyway.
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Originally Posted by docbop
Doc, if you get to check out a Loar, be sure to play the LH-700. The differences between this "Flagship" and the LH-600 (no slouch) are just amazing. Two totally different guitars.
The LH-700 (now - not always, but now) rivals Eastman guitars in workmanship. Out of the box (nowadays) they're just about perfect, except for that infamous action/neck angle thing. If you really like "old school," the action won't be a problem, imho. Mine was about 1/8" -- which isn't bad for an acoustic archtop. But if you're used to the modern FLAT tops, the J200, the newer Martins, Collings, etc. -- you won't like the 1/8" and will have to spend a few bucks getting it brought down. Of course, don't take it too low. Lower than 2.5 mm will cost you lots of loudness.
Anyway: LH-700 has rock maple neck, and is (imho) a far, far, far better instrument than the LH-600.
That said, I have TWO of the LH-600s and play them all the time. In either case, be ready for the big V-neck. I swear, you'll grow to like it - just keep playing it and thinking how good it sounds. : )
Here's "DaddyStovePipe" and his LH-700. Lets you hear the TRUE sound of this cool guitar:
Last edited by Kojo27; 11-19-2014 at 03:06 PM.
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Thanks will check the LH-700 out. I tend to play high action so sounds like it will be fine for me. Originally Posted by Kojo27
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Had a similar experience, the Loar isn't a bad box at all, and the vintage archtops tend to sound rather darker and warmer than I thought, which is interesting.
If it's pure volume you're after though, get an Altamira M01D. Loudest guitar I've ever played.
What archtops excel at, of course, is midrange cut especially when pushed hard with a heavy right hand attack. This is best if you are playing rhythm or chords solos than single note stuff it seems to me, which I suppose is what you'd expect given the style of the era.
You have to learn how to play them with the correct technique to get the most from them: both hands.
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