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Good for you ST, by all means do it! I had the opportunity to buy a '99 AA last year for $3k in the exact condition you describe, but the timing was off and I chose to move a guitar first. 2 weeks later when that happened of course the AA was long gone. But it's just as well, for not acquiring the AA at that time allowed me the opportunity to explore many other fine guitars, the Pisano included.
Originally Posted by SierraTango
To the OP, I don't know a single carved spruce archtop that does what the Imperial does for anywhere remotely near its price range. It's surprising more folks haven't discovered that guitar, for even acquired new I know of nothing that performs at its level for $2200. Another hot guitar is the Imperial's sibling, the Cremona.Last edited by 2bornot2bop; 08-20-2012 at 02:31 PM.
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08-20-2012 02:27 PM
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I agree with the notion that a good Eastman can stand toe to toe with instruments valued at twice their cost. I've got an El Rey 2 that I would compare favorably to my Heritage, Hofner, and classic Epiphone guitars. Actually, it sounds better than my Hofner Verythin (German made) for jazz. It has more of the big box archtop tone than, say, a Gibson 335 or Heritage 535. Originally Posted by SierraTango
I read somewhere that the craftsmen at Eastman hand carve every soundboard without the aid of CNC machines, making them even more "handmade" than some internationally recognized luthiers who charge the moon for their work.
Like any solid carved guitar there will be more inconsistency than with laminates, so the best course of action would be to sample a few before making your final decision. However, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one sight unseen if it came with a reasonable return policy. Now that I think of it, my El Rey 2 was ordered on Gbase, and I consider my particular instrument to be a gem.
Of course, all instruments have their potential gremlins. My El Rey has acted up once in the 3 years I've owned it. About a year and a half ago I noticed an instability in the guitar's ability to hold tune. The pitch fell dramatically over short periods of playing time. After about a week of dealing with this "tuning" problem, the tailpiece snapped right off while i was playing it. This had never happened to me before and was quite a shock. Luckily, I was practicing at home not out at a gig (this would have made for a memorable performance).
I consider the tailpiece failure to be a rather minimal complaint, being that it had to do with a peripheral accessory rather than a deep seated structural problem like a neck twist, loose brace, or bad fretwork.
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I was looking at those same guitars, plus the D'Angelicos, as I want something under $1000. I called the guy at GuitarsnJazz (Ron or something) and he said that hands down, the best jazz box for under $1000 was the Eastman AR371 or AR403. I have a 371 on order, but it's been a while and I'm still real curious about that Peerless Sunset.
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If you spoke to a Ron there that's the first I've heard of anyone but Lou answering the phone. Originally Posted by Furious_T
By "best guitar under $1k" is that like "best we carry."
Clearly those models are loss leaders for Eastman that get folks in the door. But no way would I suggest they're "better" than a D'A Excel for the same money...no way jose.
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[quote=Jazzman301;249204]Well to me comparing Eastman and Peerless is fair and accurate. The Palen guitars are more akin to say Benedetto in that they are a custom "hand" built instrument and not factory production instruments like the other two brands. My limited experience with Palen is they are gorgeous instruments and are very high end. I think you could buy 2 Peerless and 2 Eastman high end guitars for what 1 Palen might cost brand new.
I bought a Palen Perfromer from Lou last November. I tried a bunch of excellent guitars, and when I played the Palen, I said thats it!! For me, by far the best guitar I ever played and the sound is beutiful and can be heard even in vey Loud organ groups. If you have the money or can find a way to pull it off, it is worth it1
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'Great acoustic tone from an archtop' and 'best jazz box' may or may not be the same thing for any given player. As long as you understand what you're going to be doing with it. I wouldn't buy a laminate with the expectation that it was going to make good acoustic sounds. I would expect an Eastman 8xx to sound good acoustically. Curious how folks fight feedback on these though.
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I've only owned 1 Eastman, out of what now 6 or 7, I've lost count, that was an acoustic bomb...not bombshell, but bomb as in a dud. Originally Posted by Spook410
I specifically acquired an 810NC as in non-cutaway model thinking okay this thing's bound to be like an old school Gibson...well, in looks perhaps it was....the thing was a complete dud...and no one was more disappointed than me for I dug the guitars look and feel...but acoustic tone on it was crap. I was forced to move it...but just the same I'm still an Eastman fan and own another Eastman that's the complete opposite of the one I sold.
Here she is, complete with Mark Campellone pick guard and all. A disappointment she was but like a lot of former pretty women in my life she looked hot even though the insides...Mmmm, not so much.
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Beautiful guitar.. would be interesting to understand the physics behind why that particular guitar didn't work as you would expect.
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That would be a good question. Yep, she was all dressed up but had no where to go. Ha, like some women I've known. Originally Posted by Spook410
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No, it was Lou, just couldn't remember his name. Anyway, I'm just letting you know what his opinion was. I wish I could try a D'A, as it makes sense that they would be on par at least with the lower end Eastmans. The EX-1 is they are laminate and stocked with Armstrong pu's, so I'd think the tone's would be quite similar. The quandry is that I can actually try an Eastman, and the D'A I'd have to straight up buy. Have you compared these? Thanks. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
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I've owned too many Eastman's to recall, but not the new one. I know it's a big hit among those that own one. But the thing about the low priced Korean D'A, if you pull that KA floater and drop in a Tom Short floater, man you've got yerself a $3k sounding jazz archtop right there. Originally Posted by Furious_T
If I had half a brain I'd sell everything and do just that myself, for the cost of diminishing returns raises its head real quick...there's truly not $2500 difference between the korean D'A and my GE.
I intentionally keep spreading the word on that guitar because laminate or not it's a great player at any price. Acoustically it's not like my Imperial, but then again neither is the more expensive GE, or Vestax NYL-2. Those D'A's are fabulous guitars and worthy of more than honorable mention at $1500 or less. How some dealer can list the same guitar for $2750 is beyond me...must be a European thing since he feels they can't find the $749 one on the internets?
There's mine, gaudy vintage color and all. Superb player though!
Last edited by 2bornot2bop; 08-21-2012 at 02:50 PM.
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I love playing jazz archtop 7 strings.I have own an Eastman archtop 7 string and I currently own a Palen 7 string performer .I can tell you from my experience the Eastman was somewhat negative.The instrument was beautiful and affordable ......but I learned some things about guitars as well as life in general-You get what you pay for and all that glitters isn't gold. Upon a glance the Eastman seemed really superb it had a wonderful finish and sounded good but little varnish flaws around the neck binding started to develop after time plus the pick-up detached itself and had to be replaced ....the tech guy that installed the pickup stated that" the electronics seemed a little .....well you know". He shrugged and made a face.Was he implying the word "cheap".I was insulted as I took my "Baby" home .Could it be that buying a "chinese guitar" wasn't such a good idea.After about 6 months of playing this guitar the back of the guitar neck was wearing thru the finish ...I mean don't get me wrong I kinda thought it cool and I was thinking "man I'm really getting around the fretboard".But deep down I knew the wear was way too premature for the age of the guitar.
I sold this guitar...on ebay for alot less than I paid for it.Out of embarassment I bought a Palen performer.This is a hand crafted guitar made by an American craftsman that will be worth more than I paid in years to come.Last edited by kajustus; 11-23-2012 at 01:14 AM. Reason: misspell
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Somehow I can't get real bothered by the finish cracks on my 810. Lovely sounding guitar - it isn't a painting and definately not a closet queen. And really, can you hear the finish ? John Lennon thought he could and you no doubt know the result...
Scars are going to happen... Sad but true. It's a tool afterall. Cracks in the wood, now that would get my attention ...
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I'm thinking there may be quality control issues at Eastman. I'm on a very tight budget, so the Eastman's are certainly attractive in that respect. I've always loved the look of the ES175, so the AR371 was about the perfect choice for me. So...
My guitar shows up, and for the most part sounds great, but the pot on the tone control was very scratchy and began to clip and cut out. Not cool. Then there was a bad rattle on certain tones that I found to be from the screw holding the pickguard support arm on the bottom rim. The screw hole was stripped, so the screw would vibrate and the whole thing would rattle.
Shipping it back would be a pain, so I took it to a repair place since it was under warranty. The repair guy immediately looked down the neck and said that it was warped beyond repair. He said he saw this on Eastmans quite a bit, due to using improperly dried wood. Now he had nothing to gain by telling me this.
I immediately shipped it back to the dealer and he sent me another AR371, no problem. I've had this one now for about a week and so far everything seems fine. I like the tone and feel and it looks great. Some are not impressed with the pickup, but enjoy it fine for now.
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I cannot agree more. I just ordered a pagelli PG1 through a store, and out of the box the guitar had nicks behind the neck and extensive signs of playing (sweat traces on the fretboard). On top of that, the string spacing was not even due to the bridge slotting. I was pissed but they offered to give me some sort of credit for the nicks and to send me a replacement bridge, which I never got to install because the tailpiece of the guitar broke after 1 or 2 weeks inside the case. I returned the guitar of course and the store owner managed to talk me into getting a new one instead of moneyback. The new one was fine but had a different color (butterscotch vs red) I didn't like, and I couldn't get use to the pickguard that I can't remove. Plus it didn't feel as loud as the first one. I couldn't bond with it and returned it too after two weeks. It is for sale right now (2400$, new and under warranty). If anybody's interested I might put an ad here to speed up the sale. I like my Jazzica custom so much more, and I have an Eimers favino style coming soon to replace the Eastman... Originally Posted by Furious_T
Last edited by Mr JDG13; 11-23-2012 at 11:15 AM.
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Nicks and sweat on fretboards (first time I've seen that listed as a quality issue) are from shop wear. Not guitar construction. If the bridge slots weren't right, the offer of a new bridge is certainly good customer service. So.. not clear what your issue is.
re Furious' comment: I have seen the concern raised on both Eastman's and Yunzhi's (which, if you believe background stories on Internet, split a share of wood when Eastman was formed) that necks can warp because of 'improperly dried wood'. Warped necks are not a good thing and expensive to fix though rarely 'beyond repair'. Having to spend $400-$500 on a $900 guitar would suck so it's good it could be exchanged under warranty. I would interested to know how common this is and if Eastman has performed a root cause analysis like they did for finishes and problems with metal fatigue on early tailpieces.
As for electronics, I thought Eastman had addressed this with better quality component. Yunzhi certainly hasn't and I see this on a lot of Asian guitars. Good thing I can solder.Last edited by Spook410; 11-23-2012 at 03:28 PM.
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Hi Spook, the guitar was ordered directly from Eastman through a store. I personally unpacked the guitar out of the cardboard shipping box, wasn't shop worn. Nicks and extensive signs of playing on a brand new guitar I just ordered certainly look like a problem to me. I had that weird feeling they sent me a used guitar. Customer service was OK, as I said they proposed a credit to have the finish repaired. Biggest problem was the tailpiece that broke inside the case... And the poor slotting just adds up to that overall feeling I had they really lack quality control. To make things worse, the guitar I received as a replacement had a grounding issue with the floating pick up. Definitely, not a biggie but still had to be fixed before I could resell it. However I must say the neck on that thing was awesome, and played really nicely. I don't think I would buy another one though, unless I can play it first in a store, certainly not order directly from Eastman again.
Last edited by Mr JDG13; 11-23-2012 at 03:57 PM.
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River 251,
I've been on the hunt for moderately priced seven string archtops for some time. Here are some of my observations - be interested in hearing more about yours.
- Gretsch van Eps - bought it in the late 1990s, still have it. For some reason the binding hasn't decayed like many of these - this one is is good shape. It's really heavy. Not a typical "archtop" acoustically, but has great, "chimey" Filtertron tone for the higher notes and strong fundamental tones on the 6th and 7th strings. Probably wouldn't feedback through a Marshall stack. For my (limited) fingerstyle chord melody playing skills, this works.
- Schecter Jazz-7s: I really like these. I've played a lot of them, and have owned two bought used. First one had ghost tone on some notes. My repair guy couldn't fix it (or maybe I should say "fix me"). Second one is great. Coil tap pickups are versatile, so you can accommodate a lot of different styles. If you look for these, watch for cracked pickup rings and cracks in the finish at the neck joint. Mainly cosmetic, but if these things bother you . . .
- An AF207. Beautiful, well made. Feedback on the one I had, even at very at low volumes, was hard to control. Didn't expect that with the set pickup.
- A Patrick James Eggle "Crai" 7-string: Bought used relatively inexpensively for what it was. Beautiful, very light, but didn't work for me. Bottom end for bass lines seemed weak with my rig.
- I played two Eastman 7-string 17" archtops at a shop nearby. Both appeared to be very well made, light, and resonant acoustically. Both had floating pickups. These, and the AF207, are worlds apart from the heavy laminated van Eps, though.
- One that got away: A used Dale Unger American Archtop 7 string. Very comfortable neck, pickup set in the top, really felt easy to play. Only got a short demo with it before someone else got it, but it was enough to get my interest. Used it was under $2K.
- Gordon.
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That color is (IMO) excellent. Originally Posted by Broyale
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this looks like an older thread, but i will jump in...
Lou is a great person to ask so do not hesitate to call him and ask for some comparisons between all three makes.
I have never tried the Peerless and from the specs it does not appeal to me in the least. I have owned 3 or 4 Eastmans, all 17" models and found them to be an excellent value. The Pisano model is a shining star of that brand, no doubt.
Palen is a whole different quality of instrument. Handmade slowly and carefully by a man in Kansas, he really understands how to make a great sounding guitar. I love mine. If you can afford one of these, the leap in quality is significant vs most other sub-$5K guitars. Heck, my Palen is better than several $15K instruments i've played and owned.Last edited by mikeSF; 02-29-2016 at 06:57 PM.
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oddly enough, i bought one of these once and i didn't like anything about it. flipped it as soon as i could. Originally Posted by gordonf
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I have these guitars. Both sound beautiful but have their unique tonal qualities.
I can’t say which one I prefer, I pick up whatever instrument at the whim of the moment.
L-5s and let’s say LGB300 are heavier guitars I would say suited for combo playing.
But the Eastman and Peerless are more acoustic sounding and suitable for solo
playing IMO. High quality instruments.
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So,,,,,,,, 9 years on since this thread was active- Has the Eastman QA changed? What do you think? Have they come a long way since?
Come to think of it, when did they start branching out into Archtops? 10-12 years ago?
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That’s a good question. My 2005 AR805 has a natural finish with beautiful woodgraining. Sounds beautiful, nice action. I got in 2013 for under $1,000. BUT 5 years ago, repairs were needed because the pickup/pickguard assembly became unglued detached!!! (The top of this assembly did not have a screw). Also, the repair tech detected another are on the body that needed attention. (I dont remember exactly what that was.). Other than that, its a nice guitar - it kind of makes you want to pick it up and its fun to play. Admittedly, I played the hell out of mine.
The Peerless Martin Taylor is a sleeper guitar and it definitely the quality you would expect from a guitar with a MSRP of over $3k like the Ibanez LGB300 (built like a tank!)
To answer your question, my impression is Eastman guitars are better quality these days and the new models and higher prices tends to reflect that. I would say the reviews on Reverb are spot on. I’m considering getting an Eastman 7 string soon but I just may hold out and wait to get a Palen 7 string. Palen? Man those are some nice sounding guitars!
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Eastman has been building archtops at least since the late 90's. My first encounter with the brand was around that time, through a ad placed by a dealer called New Age Strings. I, too, was casting around for a 7 string, and after speaking to the rep, a fellow named Gordon at that point, I ordered one up. It was a disaster. Finish looked like my Yellow Lab did it with her paw, you could slide a credit card between the neck heel and body. Frets came off a weed-wacker. I returned it for a full refund. Originally Posted by EastwoodMike
So,,,,,,,, 9 years on since this thread was active- Has the Eastman QA changed? What do you think? Have they come a long way since?
Come to think of it, when did they start branching out into Archtops? 10-12 years ago?
I followed their progress at NAMM over the years, and quality improved over the next few years. I remember hearing they had hired Mark Lacey or some other consultant, and soon they were producing high caliber instruments. I played my Pisano 880 when they were introduced at NAMM, IIRC around 2005, and was impressed enough to purchase it. I still gig with it, it's been gigged out extensively since I bought it with not one issue other than regular maintenance.
My go-to working instrument is my 1990 Benedetto Cremona now, however the Pisano gets the call for gigs that are going to be too hot or cold, or iffy weather outside. Also, the Pisano does better on louder gigs, or in a big band situation.
I still love it!
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