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I know there are many of you out there who regularly swap out their pickups and I don’t really understand why. I’ve owned many guitars in my life and have never changed the pickups in any of my instruments. Even the cheap pickups that came in my Eastman El Rey sounded quite good to me. Are there tonal nuances I’m not hearing, or might it be that I’ve gotten lucky with all the guitars I’ve bought?
The only time where I might have considered changing pickups was in an oval holed Eastman guitar that I wound up returning. The problem with the guitar in that case wasn’t a matter of tone production; rather, it was a matter of balance. No matter how much I manipulated the pole pieces, I couldn’t get balanced volume from the treble and bass strings. In this case, I wouldn’t consider my objection to the pickups to be based on tonal preference but to manufacturer defect. If the balance were right, I would probably have kept the guitar.
By the way, there is only one guitar I’ve played (but not purchased) that came with a pickup that I knew I couldn’t get along with had I bought it, and that was a very early Heritage Golden Eagle with the Type 1 floating pickup. That particular pickup was very weak and made a beautiful, well built, and full sounding guitar sound thin. Alas; Heritage caught on to the poor reception of the public to this unit and upgraded to a much fuller sounding pickup.
Has anyone here dramatically improved their guitars by swapping out the pickups?
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08-14-2012 03:57 PM
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in my opinion, there's two reasons to swap pickups-- it's broken, or you want to go with a specifically different sound you know the pickup can ballpark (i.e, humbuckers for P90's, etc.)
Anything else risks getting into "tone dragons."
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Pickups make A LOT of difference. Traded a 57 for a Stormy Monday and the stocks on my Cort and Kingpin for other Bare Knuckles and the difference is very noticeable. Top 3 of the things that most influence tone to me.
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This may possibly offend some, so consider skipping,...
I guess it took me a year or two when I started pro-luthiating to really notice what was going on in the vast majority of pickup changes.
In my opinion it is, in the majority (and so don't start excluding yourself here,...) of cases, a psychological exercise in two ways:
- A little self flagellation with the minor cost.
- A lot of self congratulation as the deeply egocentric "measure of all things" since you are able to clearly hear the profound improvement in tone even though it was 10 days ago that you heard the old PU's.
Sure switching from a tele neck PU to a humbucker will make an clear change. And yes indeed, getting rid of those "old" Gibson humbuckers in 1978 in favor of DiMarzio Super Distortion HB's did indeed drive your amp into overdrive a full number earlier on the knob.
But all this orgasmic reaction to yet another PAF that was "hand wound right after the guy spoke to me (me, ME, MEEEEE!!!!!) on the phone" does not add up in my opinion.
If a player enjoys the sense of personal attention and gratification that comes from a low-ish cost PU change, then surely that is as good a way to spend time and money as any.
But the majority of PU changes within a basic configuration make less actual difference than slight changes in many other places, such as:
- Pick (huge difference compared to PU's , but lacks the glamor and ego-boost.
- Strings (even maybe just some new ones).
- Minor turn of any knob anywhere.
- A little right hand technique exercising.
- Etc,...
All in my opinion.
>>> Has anyone here dramatically improved their guitars by swapping out the pickups?
I am sure this has happened. On occasion.
>>> Are there tonal nuances I’m not hearing,
I suppose it is possible, but I have observed far more often the opposite - hearing what is not there.
Still one person's opinion.
ChrisLast edited by PTChristopher; 08-14-2012 at 04:46 PM.
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Did you swap humbuckers for humbuckers or did you change pickup types?
Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
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Of course no two pickups sound alike, just as any audiophile will tell you different amps, speakers, preamps, have their own sound signature.
The question is which sound does one prefer, not whether a difference can be discerned.
I've sit with a NYL-2 for a week and a GE for less than 24 hours, and blindfolded I'd tell them apart 10 out of 10 times. Whether that's due to having listened to so much different gear over the years as an audiophile may have much to do with that, but imho even a layman could hear the differences between these two guitars.
Now, if it were possible to swap pups between each guitar that would be a truer test...but I'm not about to do that, for it's simpler just to buy another guitar if I'm feeling like I'm due for a change!
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I have changed stock PU for (supposed to be) better ones in all three guitars I currently own, and everytime it made a difference, not huge admittedly but good enough for me. I even had the opportunity to compare side by side two similar guitars with the stock vs aftermarket PUs. Originally Posted by PTChristopher
Tone difference between two different PU is easy to grab; it exists or not but stating "it is better than.. " is a different matter which required trained musician or golden ears.
But what actually matters (for me at least) is identifying the PU which make sense to purchase in terms of " tone satisfaction" vs the previous one.
For instance, I plan to swap a floater for a routed in HB on my archtop, because I want a more electric than acoustic sound, and the tone difference is quite obvious to me.
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Bonsoir Mambo-S,
I definitely understand that there is some sort of difference in even the smallest PU specification change.
I just do not think it is anything like the big gushing emotive deal that many make of it.
Now some confessions,...
I really do not much like most asian mini floating HB's and I genuinely do think the KA 12-pole and even the GFS Fat Jazz represent a big improvement that can not be made via EQ.
And yeah, I really like the cheap-o Fender PU's on the Highway One and American Special Teles. Yes, a little EQ would bring out the same thing in most Tele PU's, but the Texas Special PU's sound really nice to me.
And (not a PU, but) that Jensen C12N is a complete piece of junk in every way except the sound, which I love,...
But back to PU's - I wound many PU's and found that the variables are just not all that complicated. I have never talked anyone into a custom wind, and really only did it when someone absolutely insisted. And it was odd to make the equivalent of a Mighty Mite version of a PAF that ended up costing 3X as much for the personal attention.
My opinion, and certainly not intended to argue with anyone's enjoyment of that new vintage PU.
Chris
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When I bought my telecaster I really focused on getting it to sound good with the neck pickup (70s Gibson hb)
Original bridge pick up was pretty dismal to begin with (gave me a new definition of ice pick ) I emailed lollar and told him what I had and I wanted a bridge pickup that went well with the neck pickup (not necessarily at the same time but in a rock situation I could switch without changing amp settings )
He suggested a special T bridge pu and was right on the money
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Hi Chris, Originally Posted by PTChristopher
100% OK with you.
Just experiment & experience matter....
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I have switched from some cheap asian pickups in Gretsch G100CE(floating single coil) to a hand wound KA 12 pole HB with a coil tap. I also replaced the HB in my Peerless Monarch with a Single coil HCC pickup from Pete Biltoft. To me these were pretty big changes in tone to anyones ears. I don't know how changing from most PAF like HB to another variation of a PAF HB will really effect the tone in any real noticeable way.
'Mike
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I changed out everything on an historic 1958 les paul reissue.....
pick-ups - shed supernaturals (peter green out of phase winding)
electronics - rs guitarworks vintage wiring harness
bridge and stop tail - callaham (machined steel)
you have to begin to question the rationale behind spending that kind of money on a guitar, gutting it and spending another $700 on parts but it sure does sound good.
By the way if you are looking for boutique pick-up winder, do check out shed. He's a one man shop and it takes a while but his humbuckers are really really sweet and he's a good guy.
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Absolutely. The Wilkinson mini floater that came in my first Yunzhi is a truly awful pickup. The word 'tinny' comes to mind. The KA 12 was, indeed, a vast improvement that I do not believe was imagined. Originally Posted by PTChristopher
Now, I have in hand another Yunzhi with a full size Wilkinson humbucker. I had assumed I would need to replace it but it actually sounds pretty danged good.
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HBs for HBs and P90s for P90s. Originally Posted by Klatu
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If you've never changed p'ups in your guitars, the answer lays in both the options you gave. Originally Posted by Klatu
If the guitar was a player, returning it was your loss. Originally Posted by Klatu
I've been doing this for my customers for over thirteen years. In some instruments, the change may be marginal, in others like day and night. Originally Posted by Klatu
But if you've never felt the need to change anything on your instruments, so there's no need to change anything.
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Fair enough. My experience has been that I have replaced the pickup on two of my guitars with a Lollar Charlie Christian, and I absolutely love it. I'm even thinking of replacing the pickup for my Sadowsky Jim Hall with a Lollar charlie christian (the one that drops in a HB route). the difference is extremely discernible to me in terms of the unbelievable clarity, lack of muddiness and clear string separation it achieves, even though these pickups are not exactly "noiseless". . Originally Posted by PTChristopher
But my word don't mean shit, I'm just a schmo. I took one of these guitars with the new pup (ES-339) in to my teacher for my lessons, whom you absolutely cannot bullshit about this stuff whatsoever (he worked as a consultant for Yamaha way back when they were, ahem, "re-engineering" Fender/Gibson/Martin, etc. and when he later worked for Fender, they wanted him to run one of their string factories), and even he was taken back by the clarity of the tone.
I'm not one of those who is constantly searching, I've found what I generally like (that old P90 sound), very happy with what I have, gear wise, and am getting on with it in terms of working on the music.
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Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I do, however, disagree that I made a mistake in returning the guitar. It was a player, but it needed a replacement floating pickup which would have cost me around $200 plus installation fees and taxes. I was able to return it and pick up another player that had a perfectly good floater that I didn't have to swap out. Originally Posted by LtKojak
One great thing about guitars is that they are plentiful. If you don't find the right one on your first search, you'll surely find it eventually. There are many fish in the sea.
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I have a real nice Prestige Heritage Standard LP, it came with Seymour Duncan 59 neck and JB bridge. I was looking for a different sound why I don't know. So I sold the Seymour's and loaded the guitar with TV Jone Classic from Stewmac. The are the one's that are made to fit a humbucker ring that comes with them, not real cheap pickups. Anyway they play real clean, but are limited to me in that guitar. It probally me and the way I play. Sometimes I wish I had not change the pickups. I am going to pretty soon put the TV Jones in a Peavey Generation I have, that used to have two humbuckers in it. I am going to put some Dimarzio 36th anniversary's in my Prestige. I am one of those guys who had to change pickups on some guitars. I am getting better I think. There are alot of guitars I like but don't like the sound they produce, some company's cut corners so we can afford them.
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Nothing beats 1955 Studebaker pickups for vintage tone.
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I thought we was talkin' pups! Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
Nothing beats 1955 Studebaker pickups for vintage tone.
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I was 4 years old when that was new. cool
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I have an Ibanez AS83 (now discontinued). I always loved its playability but wasn't too crazy about the stock neck position ACH humbucker (with a ceramic magnet) for a clean jazz sound. Earlier this year, I ordered, from Pete Biltoft at Vintage Vibe, a dual-blade humbucker voiced for jazz. It came with an Alnico II magnet. It improved the guitar's jazz sound significantly.
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I'm not a fan of exorbitantly expensive pickups but I do think that many guitars can be improved significantly by changing the pickup. A lot of stock pickups are either too hot or try so hard to be warm that they lack high end definition and I think it's worth a few bucks to replace them provided you know what you're looking for
I also think that Jeff is right that there is a risk of succumbing to the "tone dragons" but then I think that's always possible for anyone who thinks that gear will get them something that really has to come from practice and dedication.
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That one's got the Vintage Look in spades but, and I'm fairly certain Jeff Beck would agree with me, its tone would be improved a whole bunch with a big block Chev under the hood. Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
Nothing beats 1955 Studebaker pickups for vintage tone.
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You have to use your brain and your ears, but playing with pickups is fun. Playing with gear in general is fun. While it may be true for the great unwashed I don't think many around here believe marketing hype that implies it will make us a better player.
Next thing you know we'll reduce fly fishing to torturing some hapless animal on the end of a string.
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