Vox amp with archtop?

[Bansoir]

I have an AC 15 VR through which I play a Gibson Les Paul Studio, which fits your query. I find the combination to be totally satisfying. The Vox provides the creamy voice needed for jazz standards. I augment it with an EL Nano Holy Grail reverb pedal which makes up for the lack of reverb in the amp circuitry. Use the clean channel, set the master and channel volume around 5, crank up the bass (maybe 7.5) keep the treble at around 3. Forget the amp after that and use the Gibson's tone and volume knobs. You'll find it provides an amazing array of clean tones, great sustain, surprising volume and versatility. Go for it!

[ChrisDowning]

I think you can get way to picky about guitars and amps. Quality guitar and quality amps generally supply a very musical result - from quite jangly to super mellow. We all hear a huge array of acceptable sounds in the jazz genre. Just think of all the pick ups we use from single coils, humbuckers, piezo, and staight on mics - both the ones insde and the ones pointing at the guitar. So I guess its not surprising that if it sounds musical - its acceptable.

[vic]

Hi! Do any of you use a Vox amp with your archtop? I used a Fender Princeton Reverb as my main amp for years, but am considering something with a different voicing. I'm thinking about an AC-15.

I have a few AC30's (normal and topboost models) with original Celestion alnico speakers...all vintage....and none of these give satisfying results with my Gibson archtops in terms of the trad jazz tone. With solid bodies such as the Les Paul with P90's and buckers, results are not too bad for jazz, but somehow an archtop does not cut it here. I rather use a Fender Bandmaster (vintage) with the archtops, and even this amp is not really doing it for me...too bright overall. The treble needs to be turned down to around 2 or 3 and the bass way up to about 7 or 8.
I hear the Roland Chorus (solid state) as well as the Roland Cube are very good with archtops for a good jazzy tone. I also understand that solid state amps give overall the best results...

[ChrisDowning]

Those old style VOXs with the alnico speakers are just very edgy. That's why they often get used for chimey chord work and twelve string sounds - a Rickenbacker 12 and a VOX AC30 is a classically recogniseable sound. But life moved on and we educated our ears to listening to 4x12s and mellow, bluesy valve amps, driven to near or past distortion. Jazz stayed in the zone of clean, loads of headroom, Fender style amps. It's not that you can't use a VOX to do this, it is just that its EQ is set up for another place. So your VOX bass, middle and treble settings will be looking kinda extreme - with bass right up and treble on 1 or 2. Probably the easiest fix if you want to stay with the VOX is a speaker swap (2x if you have an AC 30). Check out Eminence's website and have a look through all the range of guitar speakers - you'll be looking for the most mellow you can find - or even a bass guitar speaker for loads of bass sensitivilty and chopped higher frequencies. (I've an old HCM120 Laney bass amp that does perfect jazz tone - but its still a bass amp). Of course forking out for two decent speakers might make you want to rethink - especially if you still like the original VOX tone thatwill be buried with your new configuration.

[vic]

Those old style VOXs with the alnico speakers are just very edgy. That's why they often get used for chimey chord work and twelve string sounds - a Rickenbacker 12 and a VOX AC30 is a classically recogniseable sound. But life moved on and we educated our ears to listening to 4x12s and mellow, bluesy valve amps, driven to near or past distortion. Jazz stayed in the zone of clean, loads of headroom, Fender style amps. It's not that you can't use a VOX to do this, it is just that its EQ is set up for another place. So your VOX bass, middle and treble settings will be looking kinda extreme - with bass right up and treble on 1 or 2. Probably the easiest fix if you want to stay with the VOX is a speaker swap (2x if you have an AC 30). Check out Eminence's website and have a look through all the range of guitar speakers - you'll be looking for the most mellow you can find - or even a bass guitar speaker for loads of bass sensitivilty and chopped higher frequencies. (I've an old HCM120 Laney bass amp that does perfect jazz tone - but its still a bass amp). Of course forking out for two decent speakers might make you want to rethink - especially if you still like the original VOX tone thatwill be buried with your new configuration.

You're quite right Chris. The big issue with the ol' vintage AC30's is that they do not have proper tone controls...only a so-called "cut" control knob which is not much good...LOL ! So one has to rely almost entirely on the tone controls of the guitar.
I also heard that bass amps make very good jazz amps.....maybe I should investigate that.
I'm very new to jazz myself (having been a rock - and rockabilly player for most of the time) and am also very interested to learn more about jazzy tones and the best way to achieve it.

PS:Hi Chris, I see you're from Devizes ! If you have the time go look up Jacques Hugo (my son)at Harold Shrimpton dental practise. We recently spent a few awesome days in your beautiful town.

[ChrisDowning]

Of course around here everyone knows everyone - so I know that practice. I will be going to my own dentist Martyn Cox on Wednesday - so thanks a lot for reminding me...! Euwe.

Trouble with the Vox + Archtop is you have a lot of sounds fighting each other to be anything but classic mellow jazz tone. The archtop doesn't really give you much bass and not much sustain. The VOX is trying to be very treble. And if the archtop has an old style single coil PU - well, that's heading for the glassy end of the frequency spectrum. The opposite wiul d be something lie a Peavey Delta Blues amp with a 15" speaker, a humbucker, and solid body like a Les Paul - loads of sustain.

I'd say in all the options, the VOX is the problem area until you can mellow that tone. The good thing is ramping that treble off the output, your background hiss will dissappear as well, so it will be very quiet. The great upside is classic valve amps are classics because they sound so musical.

Personally I would always opt to use my Fender Deluxe Reverb for its wonderful ringing clarity. It just produces a beautiful tone - although probably not woody enough for that old style traditional sound. But I don't much like archtops and I'd prefer a Telecaster or my sunburst Takamine (for an old style look)

PS Take your archtop withyou to a shop and plug into a little bass amp - you'll be surprised at how good this combination works for very little dosh.

[mangotango]

You're quite right Chris. The big issue with the ol' vintage AC30's is that they do not have proper tone controls...only a so-called "cut" control knob which is not much good...LOL ! So one has to rely almost entirely on the tone controls of the guitar.
I also heard that bass amps make very good jazz amps.....maybe I should investigate that.
I'm very new to jazz myself (having been a rock - and rockabilly player for most of the time) and am also very interested to learn more about jazzy tones and the best way to achieve it.

PS:Hi Chris, I see you're from Devizes ! If you have the time go look up Jacques Hugo (my son)at Harold Shrimpton dental practise. We recently spent a few awesome days in your beautiful town.

Is Dentistry a big thing in South Africa?? (like Physio's being Australian!) Both my last and my current dentist hail from your country (though I'm nowhere near Devizes!).

[ChrisDowning]

My brother-in-Law is from S Africa. I think S Africa is becoming rtaher like Ireland and Scotland - educates a lot of professionals who then head off somewhere else with wider opportunities. The Scots have produced huge numbers of innovators and inventors - who all seemed to have headed south before they hit the jackpot. unlike the people who headed north from the south, took over The Royal Bank of Scotland and hardly returned the investment Scots had made in England....

[vic]

Is Dentistry a big thing in South Africa?? (like Physio's being Australian!) Both my last and my current dentist hail from your country (though I'm nowhere near Devizes!).

Not really a SA thing....LOL ! I hope your SA dentists are as good as what they're taught here.......just a bit of bragging about one of our export products

[vic]

Hi Bryan... after much thought,advice and research I'm going to get a Roland Cube 80 (12" speaker) for my archtops. I will test it tomorrow Friday. These are by many accounts almost perfect for the job.

[ChrisDowning]

Yep - and the great thing about a Roland is you can add a little digital delay, reverb, or tremolo to add a little seasoning to the sound. Its all in the one box. Super reliable, light, smallish footprint.

[vic]

Yep - and the great thing about a Roland is you can add a little digital delay, reverb, or tremolo to add a little seasoning to the sound. Its all in the one box. Super reliable, light, smallish footprint.

I had endless frustration to get my Fender Bandmaster or even the AC30 affording a mellow tone with the '57 ES -175. Not only that...feedback was a major problem. So I picked up a humble Roland Cube. Cheap. This is the new 80W with a 12" speaker. However I found it a tiny bit "gonad-less" in the lower and bass frequencies, so I hooked up the 2x12 Bandmaster cab....I'm very happy with the result. Also, lifting the rig from the floor took care of that terrible deep feedback associated with archtops, as well as of our tomcat who whenever he gets the chance, lifts his tail against all and everything.

The nice thing about this Roland Cube, apart from its rich clear tone, aux in, line out, etc. and quality Fx, is that it has a built-in 80 seconds looper. So one can record and overdub small sections to evaluate different tone settings from the amp and guitar. I am happy.

[ChrisDowning]

Its probably the speaker int eh Roland. I guess if I was a manufacturer I would struggle with the fact that 90% of my buyers are pretty undemanding and look at price early in their decision process. Fact is most amps don't ahve the speaker they deserve unless they are top end. So you have kind of proved the fact with the link up. If you open it up and connnect to one of the Fender speakers you'll probably hear some difference. The guys here on Jazzguitar Forum will be posting all sorts of ideas over the years. Someone will tell you what speaker that Roland 80 need for a natural jazz vibe. For sure t will be something with more bass and a softer treble end of the spectrum.

BTW isn't that an ES165?

[vic]

Its probably the speaker int eh Roland. I guess if I was a manufacturer I would struggle with the fact that 90% of my buyers are pretty undemanding and look at price early in their decision process. Fact is most amps don't ahve the speaker they deserve unless they are top end. So you have kind of proved the fact with the link up. If you open it up and connnect to one of the Fender speakers you'll probably hear some difference. The guys here on Jazzguitar Forum will be posting all sorts of ideas over the years. Someone will tell you what speaker that Roland 80 need for a natural jazz vibe. For sure t will be something with more bass and a softer treble end of the spectrum.

BTW isn't that an ES165?

The Roland's 12" speaker is not too bad though but it's not a jazz-only speaker for sure. The little amp is very versatile and it sounds good with a Strat and a Les Paul I may add.

No, it's a '57/58 ES-175. The ES-165 (Herb Ellis) is a relatively late guitar....circa '91 only.

My 175 has a laminate maple back and - top with mahogany sides.

[ChrisDowning]

Just thinking that if you wanted a small combo to transport, you might want to change the speaker rather than lug the second amp everywhere.

BTW my dentist Martin Cox does know your son in Devizes. Small World?

[vic]

Just thinking that if you wanted a small combo to transport, you might want to change the speaker rather than lug the second amp everywhere.

BTW my dentist Martin Cox does know your son in Devizes. Small World?

Small world indeed Chris.

The question is which speaker do I put in there ? But I agree lugging that extra cab around is a mission for sure.

[ChrisDowning]

I'd email Eminence who are vey good at that sort of thing. They have tech support people who can answer the question.