Upping string gauge. Adjust truss rod?

**AmundLauritzen** · 08-09-2012, 10:55 AM

I recently acquired an American Standard Stratocaster. It wasn't long until I broke the high E-string.

Now I don't know what gauge the factory strings usually are, but these seemed like .009's or .10's at most.
I've got an order of .11's on my way. I'm by no means an expert on gear and all that, so do I need to adjust the truss rod to accomodate to the increased tension? Any other adjustments I need to make?
Thank you.

**mr. beaumont** · 08-09-2012, 11:07 AM

you might...i'm not a proponent of the "pre emptive strike"-- put them on and let the guitar settle in for a few days...it'll tell you what to do.

**Klatu** · 08-09-2012, 12:28 PM

Typically, if you go up one gauge, there's no need for a truss rod adjustment. However, if you go up 2 or more gauges, the truss rod may need to be tightened just a bit. As Mr. Beaumont mentioned, you should probably give the guitar a few days to settle into its new condition and then adjust appropriately.

**bigdaddyguitar** · 08-09-2012, 12:37 PM

Don't jump the gun . Put them on and give them some time .

**hot ford coupe** · 08-09-2012, 12:58 PM

Nuff said.

**PTChristopher** · 08-09-2012, 01:01 PM

A .009 to .042 set will yank about 75 pounds of total tension.

A set of .011 to .049 will have a total of about 115 pounds.

So quite a bit more tension.

>>> do I need to adjust the truss rod to accomodate to the increased tension?

It depends on action height (higher action lets the added tension of the new strings pull on the neck more tan would low action).

It depends on your preferred neck relief. More relief allows the added tension of the new set to pull the neck forward more.

It depends on how picky or observant you are.

>>> Any other adjustments I need to make?

Yes.

First off, the nut is almost always too high.

If the nut on your guitar is not right, nothing else can be set up right.

We are talking about a superb setup here. For any crap-o-potamus setup then why worry about any of this?

(My spell checker is fine with the "crap-o" but says "potamus" is not a word.)

Soooooo,...

>>> Any other adjustments I need to make?

If you want a superb setup, then:

Get the nut slots down and shaped both in cross section and slope.

Set rough action.

Set the neck relief.

Check and re-set the action.

Adjust bridge compensation.

All in my opinion.

There is certainly nothing wrong with just changing the strings and playing the guitar as-is if you are happy with the results.

Chris

**AmundLauritzen** · 08-09-2012, 03:08 PM

Thank you for the replies, and especially the in-depth explanation by PTChristopher.

I'll put on these new strings and let the guitar accomodate to them. Then I'll see what happens.

**Spook410** · 08-09-2012, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by PTChristopher

First off, the nut is almost always too high.

So I meant to ask in another thread but here will do..

What is the favored method is checking nut slot height? I've been using a short, thin steel straight edge. Held end on, one end in the slot, the other resting on the first fret. See if it looks pretty close to level. Seems there has to be a better way..

**PTChristopher** · 08-09-2012, 04:03 PM

>>> What is the favored method is checking nut slot height?

There is the classic method, and there has been no improvement on that.

There have been several very unfortunate alternate methods.

In my opinion.

So, first:

Q: What are we measuring, and what is the target?

A: We are measuring the height of the strings as they exit the front of the nut. The strings should exit the front of the nut at the same height as the frets.

Q: How do you measure this.

A: Unfortunately there is a commercially promoted method (and a tool to use,...) that is a terrible idea. So first the bad idea:

You DO NOT measure nut height as the OPEN STRING clearance of the strings over the first fret, or over any fret.

NO. Absolutely not. This is a terrible way to check the nut. In fact it does not check the nut. It checks some unknown combination of factors that affect clearance over the first fret, including: bridge height, neck relief, and nut height.

Really, there is no sense to measuring the clearance of the open strings above the first fret. Making your clearance the same as Stevie Ray's is beyond pointless.

Advising how to set nut height as this clearance is fundamentally misguided. I still can not quite believe that an ostensibly responsible company does this.

The classic way to check the nut height has been documented and described many times. A very fine version is presented by Frank Ford. Note how this classic method isolates the nut height from bridge height and neck relief.

Nut Action

Chris

**Spook410** · 08-09-2012, 06:17 PM

Actually knew about Frank Fords site.. this is really, really easy. Not sure if I understand where some of the other sources are coming from. Thanks Chris.

**PTChristopher** · 08-09-2012, 07:30 PM

>>> Not sure if I understand where some of the other sources are coming from.

Yeah. I do not want to get into criticizing a specific company. So I'd rather stick to the remarkably ill-advised nature of measuring open string clearance above the first fret, regardless of the source of such a suggestion.

>>> knew about Frank Fords site..

I have never read anything from Frank Ford that was not simple, clear, accurate, and useful (based on my opinion and experience).

There are some topics he stays away from, but when he says something, you can run with it with confidence.

Chris

**oldane** · 08-10-2012, 11:36 AM

... and when adjusting the truss rod go slow - that is 1/8 turn increments of the nut. 1/8 turn - check - if not enough, yet another 1/8 turn - check. and so forth. My experience is that with a Fender or Gibson truss rod, 1/8 to 1/4 turn is about right when going up one step in string gauge.

**JohnRoss** · 08-10-2012, 01:42 PM

I'm probably wrong, but I thought the norm was to put .09s or even .08s on a Strat. Is there much to be gained by using even moderately heavy strings? You're going to lose so much in terms of ease of bends and so on, is the benefit worth the cost?

**PTChristopher** · 08-10-2012, 02:00 PM

>>> I thought the norm was to put .09s or even .08s on a Strat.

Well .009 to .042 is in many ways the new norm for solid body strings.

But really, .008 is problematic for many players. It is very hard to not accidentally bend all over the place when playing such light strings.

>>> Is there much to be gained by using even moderately heavy strings?

Depends on what you consider gain and loss.

For some emotive rock/blues single note, endlessly minor pentatonic "solos", then sure, deep bends and lots of pitch change for minor effort is highly valued.

But even .010 to .046 gives lots of pitch change for even modest effort.

Heavier strings do often bring out more of whatever resonance and character you consider to be in a solid body guitar.

Heavier (or less silly-light) strings are far less susceptible to the various things that conspire to harm intonation accuracy.

>>> You're going to lose so much in terms of ease of bends and so on,

In my opinion, the "so on" is all downside artifacts for light strings.

For ease of playing (or "playability"):

- Get the nut DOWN.
- No really, down.
- Note that for most players, and with a very well set up guitar (get the nut right,...), a lower action and reduced relief is easily done with heavier strings.

So yeah, lighter strings seem easier to play. But give me any player and his typically badly set up guitar, and I like the chances of making the guitar EASIER to play with heavier strings. Sooooo,...

Heavier strings can be set up to play every bit as easily as lighter strings. You get more tension, but also lower buzz free action and less neck relief. Arguably, this makes grabbing tough chords and fast single note runs EASIER, not harder.

But yes, bends will result in less pitch change for a given amount of sideways pressure on the strings.

So if deep bends with lots of pitch change are your thing, then lighter strings have significant value.

For a superbly easy to play guitar, not so much,...

Chris

**cosmic gumbo** · 08-10-2012, 02:25 PM

If we're talking strat, string gauge can also affect the spring tension on the tremelo block and change the height of the bridge.

**PTChristopher** · 08-10-2012, 02:28 PM

Between the changing the number of springs, and the adjustment that changes the length of the spring span, this is a non-issue in my opinion.

Easily adjusted to leave the bridge at whatever angle, and at whatever height, one wants.

Chris

**oldane** · 08-10-2012, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by JohnRoss

I'm probably wrong, but I thought the norm was to put .09s or even .08s on a Strat. Is there much to be gained by using even moderately heavy strings? You're going to lose so much in terms of ease of bends and so on, is the benefit worth the cost?

Stewie Ray Vaughan used very heavy strings on his old Strat. Hendrix used medium strings. The first 10 years of the Strats existence, there were no slinky strings, they were strung with "regular gauge" = 12s or 13s. I don't think you can consider anything being "the norm" - it has been all over the place. Each player has to try out various kinds and gauges of string with a given guitar to see what suits him best. If you put medium to heavy flatwounds on your Strat, you've just created a very nice fat jazz tone - not at all "twangy" or "icepick" ot whatever people use to connect with Strats. For one thing, the neck pickup of a Strat is placed perfectly for that mellow and spread jazz tone.

**lschofield** · 08-10-2012, 05:23 PM

I like the last post and was thinking the same thing; Vaughn used 13's I think which are considered monstrous to strat players. And, the other later comment about the tremolo is important. Changing string gauges with a floating bridge usually needs an addition of a spring or two on the back as well to get it down to its normal position. Also, Strats can have lots of different neck types with different flex to them, so go slow on the truss turns.

I wanted to also question the original need. If you want thicker strings for bluesier bends or darker tones or something, I think thats a great reason to change. But if its really about string breaks, maybe figure out where the strings are breaking. If they break down at the saddle you might want to examine for a sharp spot at the rubbing point, or perhaps the real issue is a low end bridge or saddle that could be upgraded. I had a period of string breaks that were corrected with aftermarket graphite saddles ("graph-tech" I think, or so). Nut upgrades are sometimes the answer if the break is at the top.

**AmundLauritzen** · 08-10-2012, 06:28 PM

Well the reason why I want .11's on the strat is because I use .12's and up on my archtops, so I'm used to that kind of tension. The lighter strings tend to slip around on the fretboard because of how I play. Accidental bends as you guys mentioned.

The Strat will be my all around axe and it will be used for other styles than jazz also, but I'm not compromising sound for ease of bending. If .11's means it's going to be tougher to bend strings then so be it - I need it to be comfortable to play and have the tone I need. I've grown accustomed to playing on .15's in the past so it shouldn't be a problem.

I'll be using this thread as a reference once my .11's have arrived and I've strung my guitar with them. Thank you for all the help so far!

**Soco** · 08-10-2012, 06:48 PM

I have 011's on my custom shop strat and it works fine. My guess is that you would have to adjust the truss rod, but I would ask someone that has a bit of experience with this to help you out if possible. It is really not that hard, but you have to know what you are doing.

**PTChristopher** · 08-10-2012, 07:46 PM

***************************

I deleted this post since it was more or less a "procedure" that in my opinion is beyond the scope of a forum, and probably not something I should be posting.

There are certainly many other useful comments and opinions in this thread.

Chris

**Spook410** · 08-11-2012, 12:19 AM

You can mess up a Fender Strat truss rod setup using the wrong size allen wrench and stripping the inside of the bolt.

**Keira Witherkay** · 08-11-2012, 04:58 AM

I just aquired a 95 usa standard fender stratocaster and a string change to 11 flatwounds as mentioned above made a huge tonal difference to round wound 9's which was typically strat thin tone , with 11 flats it took on a jazz voice , btw i blocked the trem so no hassles from that side , it has graphtech saddles and my tech cut the nut to fit the wider strings , and yes they been on for a few weeks and the trussrod needs a minor tweak ,

but yes bending is harder but i play trad jazz so never bend so no loss for my jazz style

but tone is surprisingly usable in fact one can't believe its the same guitar just cos of a string change to flats

good luck with your strat

**Archtop 13** · 08-11-2012, 09:29 AM

Truss rod adjustment will depend on the wood of the neck. There is no rule of thumb but, rather some guidelines. A nice thick multipliece maple neck will likely need less adjustment than a thin 1 piece maple neck. Same goes for most woods.
The variance comes from every piece of wood being different in grain & strength. I built 2 necks from the same piece of maple. One of them needs seasonal adjustments. The other is a solid as a rock.