Archtop recommendation in the $3k-$4k range

[BlueInGreen]

Hello, I'm planning on upgrading my archtop by this time next year and I'm not entirely sure what all is out there. I know what I want in an instrument, so perhaps somebody can help me out here.

I currently play an early Epiphone Joe Pass. It's a pretty decent guitar, especially for getting it used for $300... I really love the Gibson L-5, so I'm looking to try out 17" carved tops, preferably with fixed pickup(s).

My favorite guitarists are Wes, Ted Greene, George Benson, Bireli Lagrene, Russell Malone, and Joe Pass.


I was thinking about a Gibson ES-175, but I know that there are other builders like Eastman and Peerless with affordable carved top guitars.


If you have a suggestion or recommendation, let me know. I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

[msr13]

The Sadowsky LS-17 is, IMHO, a wonderful alternative to the L5 if you play out a lot. It is laminated, but has excellent acoustic properties. Russell Malone plays it as his main thing now. The Sadowsky site will have all the specs.

Sadowsky Guitars

[AmundLauritzen]

You mentioned Wes, Bireli and Benson. Well, these all prefer(ed) L-5-esque sounds. The Gibson L-5 Wes Montgomery has gotten a lot of praise, but I think it will be above the price range you're going for.
If you're willing to spend a bit more though, that guitar will NOT disappoint you and you probably won't ever need to "upgrade" as you'd be hard pressed to find something that sounds better.

I don't own a L-5 Wesmo, but I have played one and it was incredibly painful to have to stop playing it because not only does it sound beautiful, it basically plays itself.

Maybe you can get a wine red for less, as sunburst/tobaccoburst tends to up the price significantly. It's a shame Yamaha stopped producing their L-5 copies, because a lot of people said they were on par with the L-5 in almost all aspects for a fraction of the price. Here's a clip of Bireli with the Yamaha L-5 copy:

[jorgemg1984]

I love my X-500. I would like to try a Sadowsky, so many great players use them so they must be excellent.

[BlueInGreen]

@msr13, What a beautiful guitar! It fits my specifications quite nicely, too. I really dig Malone and Jim Hall and both are playing Sadowsky, so I believe that you nailed it. Thanks!

@Hexatonics, yeah I've heard conflicting reports on the 175 and Eastman. I'm interested in the Guild, but I'm really looking at that Sadowsky that was recommended. I'll probably do a little research on the X500 anyway

@AmundLauritzen, Haha the L5 Montgomery is what I'm trying to get someday. But for now, I'm trying to stay under or close to $4k. I'll definitely be investing in an L5 down the road when I'm good enough to play one ahaha!

[Jabberwocky]

That's a good budget. Lotsa great guitars in this price range. Just throwing them out there: Steve Andersen Streamline (below $4K used); Heritage Sweet 16; Heritage Golden Eagle; Gibson L-4CES $3395 (below $3K used for a Sunburst; Blondie costs a little more) Dream Guitars- Fine Handcrafted Instruments, Vintage Guitars, Classical Guitars, Electric Guitars, Mandolins in Asheville, North Carolina ; Gibson Tal Farlow (below $3K used); Roger Borys B120 (below $3K used); Sadowsky Jim Hall (below $3K used); Steve Holst ($3.3K New); Guild X-700, X-500, X-180, X-170; Jim Triggs San Salvador (about $3K used); Gibson L-5 Studio 1997 Gibson L-5 Studio $3495 (I'd try below $3K used realistically; basically a carved spruce top L-5CES without the bling, and with laminated maple back and sides).

Oh yeah, the unicorn of the Gibson line-up: the ES-775 http://www.archtop.com/ac_91ES_775.html (below $3K used), and the purist ES-175SP http://www.archtop.com/ac_10ES_175SP.html (below $2.2K used is more realistic, I feel).

"The right price is whatever the market can bear", attributed to Bob Benedetto.

[rpguitar]

There are many good choices and you're hearing about some. But you'd be wise to ignore any advice that brusquely steers you clear of iconic and/or popular options like the ES-175 or Eastman's product line.

[BlueInGreen]

@Jabberwocky, thanks, that's quite a list! I'll do some searching around on the internet and local shops to try and find some of these!

@rpguitar, I haven't exactly ruled them out; I really need to sit down and try them out first

[Jabberwocky]

The prices in parentheses are what I feel the ballpark realistic prices. Dealers tend to ask much higher than the figures I provided. Of course, it is only worth as much as you are willing to pay to possess it. Given the right economics climate, these ballpark figures can and will change. I do not claim to be an expert in pricing but these limits are based on the last three years of watching these guitars on ebay and what sold at dealers'.

I won't rule out the Eastman archtops either but they fall happily below your price range. Jeff Hale Music, Bernunzio's and Guitars N Jazz are 3 of the Eastman dealers I recommend.

[Spook410]

If you don't mind a used instrument and you want the equivalent of an L5, I recommend shopping for a Heritage here: For Sale, Trade, Wanted - Heritage Owners Club

[marcwhy]

Yes, at that price range, you have a lot of options!

Since you're in Texas, you need to check out Chris Forshage in the Austin area -- you will be very pleased.

Others I like/play in that price range: Rob Engel; Ralph Novak (Novax Guitars).

Have fun looking!

[Frank67]

I think in this price range an ES 175 is a good choice (i disagree with Hex on this - ES 175s are nice sounding, nice playing, nice looking guitars). The new 59 reissue's with one or two pickups seem to be particularly good but I haven't played or heard one (I have a regular 2009 one that I think is a great guitar for jazz).

Another one that one might throw in are the Ibanez GB 10s. These are nice sounding guitars, perhaps a bit less versatile than the ES 175s and quite bright with little sustain (which may also be a good thing if you like to play fast and look for good note definition), but definitely classy guitars. Also very comfy to play because they are small and made for higher stage volumes.

Sure enough Sadowsky's are great at the upper end of your budget. I've been in the shop in NY once and wasn't all that overwhelmed to be honest, but it might have been just me on that particular day.

And and and ....

[chrisnewlin]

There are plenty of ES175's in the $2-3k range, and I can tell you that they are fantastic guitars. Super smooth and incredible woody tone among other things. There is a reason why they are one of the most popular and beloved archtop guitars in history.

Also, the Ibanez copies of the 175 (Ibanez 2355 or FA100) or the L5 (FA300) are also oustanding, and will usually be around the same price range.

Those are all I can recommend based on owning them or playing them myself. I've never touched a Sadowsky, but from all accounts, I hear they are great as well.

[Section Player]

Oooh there is a good reason why most of the players y


I will say it before and say it agiong and again lol, the Guild x-175 or X-500 is the clsest thing to an L5. In fact to me it rivals it and doesnt have a solid top. You can get a good one for $2,000 but you have to be careful of the neck angle. If you would like to know why I will explain. If not theres no point :-)

Guild X-175 Manhattan Jazz Archtop Electric Guitar 1976 Spruce Top | eBay

Guild X500 Paladin - Westerly Guild Guitars

Hexatronic: agree with your comments about Guild. I have an X-175 and I love it.

I'm interested in what you might have to say about neck angle on the Guilds. Mine was built about 1974-76.

[jorgemg1984]

My X.500 had a neck angle problem, the tailpiece was touching the body. My luthier removed the neck and placed it correctly

[Steve Z]

Great budget. I always recommend buying used if possible to save money and when you decide that you want to trade up or sideways later you will may get more of your money back. FWIW, I tend to really like the playability and tone of the Epiphone Joe Pass which I believe is based on the Emperor class body. The newer Epi Swingster with the same essential body and neck plays great as well. My point is that more expensive and better build quality does not always mean you the guitar will necessarily be better for "you".... I have owned my share of high end archtops in the past so I have some real life experience, but they were mighty nice to own.

I just did a quick Craigslist search using SearchTempest Online Classifieds Search - All the Classifieds. One Search. and found the following...

I really like the Golden Eagle.... sweet! (not mine but I wish it was

Heritage Golden Eagles... looks like a custom model with the Gibson style pickguard (a great alternative to an L5)
2001 Heritage Golden Eagle





2009 Jim Triggs - San Salvador
http://http://austin.craigslist.org/msg/3019609074.html


Guild X-500
High end Guitar Collection for sale:

[Steve Z]

Not really the Benson thing, but there is what looks like a sweet Benedetto Bravo Deluxe at a nice price at GuitarCenter

[Jabberwocky]

Those are some great finds, Steve Z....Wait, you're from TN and you're shilling Heritage? Not cool. Not cool.



That 2001 Golden Eagle looks good. I may factor in the cost of a neck pickup change to your favorite flavor of Jazz Pups, bow-wow; not too keen on those Schallers (they're Schallers, aren't they?). The 2009 Triggs San Salvador looks tasty too.

Based on the face value of the classifieds, my pick is the 2009 Triggs San Salvador over the 2001 Heritage Golden Eagle for a little under $3K: http://austin.craigslist.org/msg/3019609074.html .

I always prefer pre-loved guitars to new.

[AlohaJoe]

Not really the Benson thing, but there is what looks like a sweet Benedetto Bravo Deluxe at a nice price at GuitarCenter

That's quite a deal... the Deluxe runs about 6K new! This Bambino Deluxe (5K new) also looks like a sweet buy at Artisan Guitars, and Archtop.com just listed a spectacular '91 ES775 within your budget.

You've got a lot of choices... I usually prefer vintage and used, but Coolvinny just posted here on this forum about his new Holst and it sure got my GAS fired up! Happy hunting!
- joe

[wintermoon]

do you have a scale length preference?
many of the suggestions listed are for guitars w/a shorter 24 3/4" scale, like the X-500 and ES-175.

[stevedenver]

Another vote for triggs
Great,light,resonant,and gorgeous fit,feel, and finish

If you will wait, you'll get an amazing guitar for the money

[Patrick2]

[quote=Jabberwocky;239229]Those are some great finds, Steve Z....Wait, you're from TN and you're shilling Heritage? Not cool. Not cool.

That 2001 Golden Eagle looks good. I may factor in the cost of a neck pickup change to your favorite flavor of Jazz Pups, bow-wow; not too keen on those Schallers (they're Schallers, aren't they?).

No, they're not Schallers. They're Duncan '59s. Great pups for jazz. Not my favorite, but I've got one in the neck pisition of one of my Super Eagles. Sounds great. I wouldn't consider changing . . . does jazz just fine.

That is one beautiful Golden Eagle shown there. The 2001 era guitars were amongst the finest Heritage did. It also has the earlier features . . triple finger board binding, bridge base inlays . . . and the OSB Original Style Burst . . or Original Sun Burst . . . is just so Gibson-esque. In my opinion, $2,900 might be a bit ambitious in today's market. . . but, the seller is claiming near mint condition. Also, Golden Eagles with two mounted pups are not too common, if your desire is to get close to the L5CES . . . you'll do no better than this guitar . . . anywhere or from anyone. If I needed a Golden Eagle, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to pull the trigger on that beauty.

[Bluewyatt]

May I be so bold...
https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guita...-basin-st.html

[Section Player]

Well as far as I know, Guilds dont have much of a neck angle. This is problematic because the bridge will not go far down enough to accommodate 13's (if thats you choice)
Also I think over time and the fact that many of them may have had a bigsby the necks need reseting.
Best way to tell if this is happening, is to look how far the bridge is already screwed down in the advert pics, or in person. If the seller ses it has 11's on then you know your gonna have trouble.
Still could be wrong about all that.

As Far as Es175's go, to call them 'woody' would be very generous in my op.

My Guild does not have a Bigsby, nor would I buy one with it. I use 11s or 12s on it and it sounds fine through an amp. It's a 1976 X-175 and I'm really happy with it. I bought it off the wall of an independent local guitar store about, oh, 5 years ago. I've attached a picture which sorta shows the neck angle.

As has been already said, if you can find an older Guild in good shape, they are great instruments so take a hard look!

[Steve Z]

May I be so bold...
https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guita...-basin-st.html

Sweet guitar.