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Hi Derek,
I've also got the button in position 4 on both my ES-125 and my Howard Roberts copy. I didn't choose that spot as the buttons were already there when I bought the guitars. They are both comfortable and seem to balance well - I've got no complaints. I, too, would be interested in hearing people's recommendations for new straps.
Chris
Originally Posted by Derekdaman
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09-16-2013 09:44 PM
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Like picks and strings.. there will be many opinions. I really prefer position 3. Given the built in pup, it wouldn't be so hard to install the small wood block tied in to the neck that's required. No idea what this does to resale if done properly. If done improperly, without solid backing you can damage the shell. Positions 1 and 2 tend to dig a hole your case and the guitar tips forward a bit all the time. It's OK and I really don't notice all that much on the one guitar that has it there. 4 is fine but you may find you whack the heel of your hand into it as you race for the 17th fret. Position 5 I have on several flat tops and it is odd that it stays out of the way but it does. Also, holes in wood are easy to fill. Holes in end caps, not so much.
As for a strap, I like neotech because the locking mechanism, while imperfect, doesn't require special lugs and they have some give to them, they have models that support an end pin jack (doesn't matter in this application), they look nice, and they are comfortable.Last edited by Spook410; 09-16-2013 at 10:21 PM.
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In my 175 the strap button was put by the tech at position 1
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I was playing standing up last year on a recent model 175 with the strap on pos. 2 - the guitar slipped clean off the strap and I was lucky to catch it - so I bought a cheap strap lock in the form of a little plastic disc that works like a washer.
I like pos.3 - good how the guitar strap forms around the guitar body, feels secure, and distributes the weight well.
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Position 3 really requires a block shaped to fit and glued underneath the rim to accept the screw or it will tear through the thin rim in time. It requires a luthier or tech who cares enough to patiently shape and work the block through the pickup rout. Position 3 works best if constructed as part of the guitar from the get-go like a Gretsch or an Andersen.
The solution to a strap falling off the strap button is a Grolsch beer bottle washer or some such. The heel of the neck is where it is strongest (solid wood long neck tenon for the screw to bite into) and most straightforward installation.
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I want one of those guitars! I played one at a music store back to back with several guitars--Heritage Eagle, Godin Jazz and Composer, current issue ES-175--and the '59 VOS played and sounded better than any of the others. Gibson really hit the mark with this one. Sounds like you got a great deal too!
All my archtops without factory-installed strap buttons have had the button at #4 on the heel. Seems to work fine.
Chaz
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Hey there DDMan.
Kenny B just put a thin strap around the neck block, I guess there weren't anyy strap buttons back in the day!
Are you a 'vintage freak' or a 'musical instrument as tools' kind of guy?
Shiny new strap button = ca$h loss
Aged/contemporary strap button = as it came from the factory!
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from #336 "Good Sounds" page 12
Jim Hall & ES-175 Germany TV Show 1973
(placed strap button as like to the LP position and replaced pickup)
Last edited by kawa; 09-18-2013 at 01:09 PM.
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Go old school and tie it to the headstock...and wear a suit.
Last edited by cosmic gumbo; 09-18-2013 at 12:23 AM.
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for reference ;
https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guita...ap-button.html
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I wanted to follow up on my previous review. I did a gig with my 175 vos over the weekend, a solo jazz thing. It worked out just fine, sounded just like it should. For me the really big deal on this instrument is that it is set up just right and is very light and comfortable. Also, I tried out a set of Doug's Plugs and they worked very well, no feed back issues. I could stand wherever I wanted in relation to my amp and any volume I wanted.
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If the plywood is thinner (just conjecture, I have no evidence of this) it will be more prone to feedback. A friend of mine who gigs in NYC has a '96 and said that he knows his 175 is thicker and heavier than a '60s model but said that he's played in big bands and loud organ trio groups and has never had to tape his F-Holes or stuff the guitar and has no issues with feedback so he prefers the heavier guitar.
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I've had my 1 pu natural '59 reissue for several months now, and while the one I bought from Wildwood developed a crack in the rim of the cutaway, the new one from Gibson has been perfect. The instrument is really light and plays and sounds as I hoped it would. It was expensive but it was worth it. Originally Posted by Jazz_175
p.s. Nice 175 Laro!
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They did. The 175CC. In 1984, I think.
I had one- heavy, maple neck, big head, dark brown finish, volute, 3 point gibson CC., probably old stock pickups because of the coil resistance. It didn't sound like a 175 at all, but the CC sound had a lot of charm. The old CC pickups had a serious hum, far more than P90s, so positioning relative to the amp was something you had to think about.
Although I have been defending the 70s maple-neck 175s in another 175 thread as great players, I have to say that this 80s model really was very unattractive with its mud- burst walnut colour.
I think the guitar didn't sell - who wanted a CC sound in the 80s?- so it lasted maybe a couple of years.
Maybe now is a better time..but the CC pickup is not a versatile pickup IMO and its characteristic sound is very much a matter of taste.
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i'm now open to a maple neck 175 if anyone is selling one.
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Agree. I wrote about my first hand experience with an original CC pickup in another thread a week ago: Originally Posted by Franz 1997
I happen to have two guitars with Pete Biltofts HCC (with Alnico II magnets), and it's a great PU with excellent sound and clarity, good balance across the string set and low noise level, considering it's a single coil.
I also happen to own an old Gibson L37 retrofitted long ago with an original old 1938 Gibson CC PU (the version with the notch under the B-string). It's more fun to own than to play. First, it's noisy as heck - picks up hum from a mile away. Second, it's unbalanced from string to string. Third, the mounting with the heavy magnet and the three screws in the top always works itself loose, causing the shims under the screws to buzz and the PU to rattle. Without the shims, the screws would dig into the soft spruce top after some time, so they can't be removed. BTW, I guess that also goes for the modern copies of that mounting (Lollar, UK CC). Yes, Barney Kessel used a CC in his modified ES 350 for decades. But there are photos of him in which one can see paper stuffed in between the PU and the top, no doubt to stop annoying rattle/buzz.
So .... for real life playing, I much prefer my modern Biltoft HCC in a humbucker mount. My L37 is more or less a nostalgic museum piece for me, not a utility instrument.
Just my humble opinion, of course.
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the biltoff sounds *NOTHING* like a CC pickup IMO. Comparing it to a CC pickup is like comparing a stacked single coil to a real strat pickup. In the same ballpark? Maybe but not much of the original vibe.
IMO, a P90 pickup has way more vibe than the modern CC pickup.
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True. While the term "vibe" is rather vague and may have a different meaning to different people, having both pickups, I can confirm that a HCC sounds different from an original CC. I happen to like the sound of my HCCs. However, a HCC is not one fixed thing. The HCC can be had with different magnets (from weak Alnico II to hot ceramic) and the sound varies with the magnets used. I would guess that the HCC equipped Painter you tested in the clips on YouTube had ceramic magnets as this was what Tom used if the customers didn't specify otherwise. My HCCs has Alnico II magnets which is at the other end of the magnet strength spectrum. Originally Posted by jzucker
Another thing is that the surviving original CC pickups likely don't sound the same as they did when they were new almost 80 years ago as the magnets have weakened over time.
That said, I'm one of those people who believe that the differences in sound between different pickups can be levelled out to a large extent with the tone controls on the guitar/amp/preamp unit provided the center frequencies of those controls are well chosen (or one uses a graphic or parametric equalizer of some sort). However, I do find a difference between humbuckers and single coils in that I find the single coils better balanced between top and buttom where some humbuckers (not all, but it's a generic tendency) tend to have harsh highs when the bass is dialled in to be clear - and muddy bass when the highs are dialled in to be mellower.
Just my humble opinion of course - I know that many will beg to differ.Last edited by oldane; 01-24-2014 at 01:07 PM.
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I have a Vintage Vibe CC Rider p/up in the neck position of my G&L Asat Classic 3. And it sounds GREAT! Even though it may not sound like an original, there are 2 advantages that I see in it's design.
First: it does not have that long metal bar extension w/ 3 bolts that extend into the body
Second: the ability to swap out different magnets from Alnico 2,3,4,5, Ceramic I ended up loving the ceramic best to my ear and Jazz type of tone.
I won't claim it be superior sounding, but it certainly sounds wonderful to ears, and I love Barney Kessel,Howard Roberts,etc.
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Loved these guitars the first time I saw them, happy to be able to get one.
Also a picture of its cousin of the future a ES-165.
The guitar is great, it's funny about the case, its super heavy, like a flight case. It says made in Costa Rica and has the old style latches. Rick
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Nice I always like the single pickup versions. Congrat's!
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looks good and that's a serious case w/some thick padding.
I hope it doesn't say GIBSON USA on the outside like the old Canadian cases did.
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is the 165 yours as well? (didnt understand the future cousin thing)
How would you compare them? I have a 165 like yours and a 64 125. I like the neck on the 165 and the cutaway but like the weight and tone of the 125 ..
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The wood on the 175 looks better than that on the 165. Am I the only one who prefers the older style to the 90s and later exaggerated flame woods? Does EVERY guitar have to be a Les Paul Standard?
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hah! I was just thinking the same thing. flame, flame, FLAME. mine's flamier than yours! Originally Posted by Greentone
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