Fun Modding an Epiphone Joe Pass

[Hoji]

Thought I'd share my story of the mods I've done on my Epiphone Joe Pass. There's still more I want to do, but I think I've got it in a good place for now. I started with a stock, '97 Samick model, which played great but had weak pickups and a busted toggle switch. I've replaced all the electronics and rewired everything, and also added a rosewood pickguard and a couple other cosmetic changes. I can tell you, it's been a lot of fun! I paid $450 for the guitar, and have put about $150 into it, so for around $600 I think have a really cool and unique "instrument". Sure it's no Eastman, but I'm digging it for now.



Here are the specs of where I landed:

Neck:
SD Phat Cat
500k CTS audio vol.
500k CTS audo tone
5000 pF polystyrene tone capitor (yes, thats picofarads!)

Bridge:
GFS Mean 90
500k CTS audio vol.
500k CTS audo tone
7800 pF polystyrene tone cap (pair of 3900s in parallel)

One thing I wanted to mention specifically are the tone caps. These are quite a bit lower than what would normally be used. I set up a test rig, in which I put wired up the pots and switch on a piece of cardboard, attached it to the pickups mounted on the guitar with alligator clips, and soldered in jumper clip cables where the caps would go. I spent a few days like this (dining room table covered in a huge mess) testing our different capacitors. I tried orange drops, mallorys, silver mica, etc all ranging from a tiny 2400 pF up to .033 uF. (No PIOs, though). And in the end I settled on some tiny polystyrenes that only cost 10 cents each! With the small caps, I get a much wider range of tones. I can really fine tune the amount of high frequencies that are grounded out from 10 all the way to 0 and still have a useable tone anywhere on the dial - just differently colored. Anything .01 uF and higher would get all muddy and underwater sounding when turned down. The Mallorys were too nasally. The Orange drops, too woofy. The polystyrenes really seem the clearest, to me anyway. (This could have been all in my head, I admit, but it sure was a blast!) Also, this is what worked for me - ymmmv.


My secret sauce - tiny polystyrene caps!





By the way, it took me a frustrating 2 hours to get everything situated back in through the pickup holes. Not sure I want to go through that again!

Actually, I can't really recommend the GFS Mean 90. Just doesn't do it for me. But it's the bridge which I don't use too much, so I think it was ok for $40. The Phat Cat is a WAY nicer pickup, at least in the neck of this guitar.

OK-

playing a little tune

Acceptable? I'm sort of going for the slightly primitive, raw, 40's/50's, P90-ish sound. No way I'm getting a Wes/L5 sound out of this piece of plywood, but I've accepted that.

Still want to replace that tailpiece, and maybe a bone nut... someday. Anyway, that's my story for now. Hope this was entertaining or heplful in some way.

[Steve Z]

Sounds nice. I played at used Epiphone Joe Pass that was the local Guitar Center a while back and it was really nice and a bargain at under $400 with a hard shell case. I didn't buy it because I didn't need it but I was tempted... it was sold two days later when I finally decided to go back and buy it -- bummer.

[es34569]

Nice playing and thanks for the sound sample with your mods. I've been considering buying an Epi JP and recently tried one out. I thought the stock pups were okay and was mulling over possible reasonable improvements. Your post certainly was a plus for ideas.
Chuck

[Hoji]

Thanks - hope it inspires you to start modding! BTW - just added another sample (first link) in which I play around with the tone knobs in all three toggle positions.

[Spook410]

I got a '91 Washburn J6 just to screw around with. The pots were shot, the switches cheap, and it just needed everything reworked. I learned a lot which by itself is a good reason to do this. I've now acquired what I need to do a bone nut with a proper set up. Should be a pretty decent guitar by the time I finish playing with it.

The small caps you picked were a surprise. They'll have a pretty high cut off frequency. Guess the rig needed to sound brighter. Interesting. Also, did you use string method to get your post and switches back in? Curious why it was difficult.

[EddieLastra]

Thanks for sharing your project. I've always thought the Epi JP a really good guitar for the money. Mine is an early '90's model Emperor II with the pickup selector switch on the lower bout, like an L5. I read somewhere that when Joe Pass was approached to endorse this model, he requested the switch moved to the upper bout like an ES-175.

I recently had the neck pickup replaced with a Gibson Classic '57, left the bridge pickup alone as I never use it. Had all the wiring redone and replaced all the hardware with CTS and Switchcraft parts. All in all it's been a worthwhile mod, wished I'd had it done a long time ago. Interesting to read how you arrived on your choice of tone caps. Not sure what caps my repair guy put in, but it was definitely an improvement over what I had before.

BTW, where did you get your rosewood pickguard?

[Retroman1969]

The sample playing is beautiful, and thanks for all the detailed info of the process and result. I'm thinking of going this mod route, so this has been a fun and interesting read. I think you nailed the tone that you mentioned you were after, and it certainly makes that JP unique.

[Hoji]

BTW, where did you get your rosewood pickguard?

Got the pickguard on ebay - Wood Pickguards - Electric, Wood Truss Covers items in Woodguarden Wood Pickguards store on eBay!

I got a '91 Washburn J6 just to screw around with. The pots were shot, the switches cheap, and it just needed everything reworked. I learned a lot which by itself is a good reason to do this. I've now acquired what I need to do a bone nut with a proper set up. Should be a pretty decent guitar by the time I finish playing with it.

The small caps you picked were a surprise. They'll have a pretty high cut off frequency. Guess the rig needed to sound brighter. Interesting. Also, did you use string method to get your post and switches back in? Curious why it was difficult.

Ha -yeah, I did try the string method at first. Got all tangled up, with the wires, solder points etc. Ended up just stuffing it all in and using a finger through the f-hole to push the pots through. That last bridge-tone pot was a real pain, though. Maybe it was because I used something like kite-string... perhaps a thicker twine would have worked better.

What tools are you using for the bone nut? I looked into the files on StewMac, but man they are expensive. Wondering if you can get by with a bare-minimum set.

The sample playing is beautiful, and thanks for all the detailed info of the process and result. I'm thinking of going this mod route, so this has been a fun and interesting read. I think you nailed the tone that you mentioned you were after, and it certainly makes that JP unique.

Thanks! Good luck with yours.

[mangotango]

......... and it certainly makes that JP unique.

Well, you say that, but I've recently done something very similar to my JP. New tailpiece, still working on a scratchplate, new electrics, Kent Armstrony P90's. Sounds better, looks better and of course a total contrast with my D'Angelico. Will post pic's ASAP (honest!)

[EddieLastra]

Got the pickguard on ebay - Wood Pickguards - Electric, Wood Truss Covers items in Woodguarden Wood Pickguards store on eBay!

Thanks, I've just sent him a request for one. Finally got to listen to your sound samples. Some smooth clean tones coming out of those single coils and very nice playing!

[Spook410]

What tools are you using for the bone nut? I looked into the files on StewMac, but man they are expensive. Wondering if you can get by with a bare-minimum set.

I asked for the specialty StewMac tools as a birthday present. Several two sided files, (.012-.056 range), .010 saw, and the handy dandy action depth ruler. They were expensive but nice tools are a joy to have around and there is the rationale that they will pay for themselves in time. That, and the wife is used to parts list procurement near holidays. I'll probably screw up a nut or two before I get there, but that's just part of it.

[amusiathread]

You had me at chichenhead knobs.

[Hoji]

You had me at chichenhead knobs.

Heheh, yes, that was an essential part of my scheme. Get a lot of comments on those. I like them because I can tell where they are without looking. Found them pretty cheap from tubesandmore.com.

[Phil in London]

interesting project... ! Especially the info on the pots is really valuable.

I am going through something similar with my Epi JP, 1994, just changed the neck pickup with a Lollar Charlie Christian (humbucker size) pickup. The result is very interesting, the guitar suddenly sounds very acoustic and woody, totally different tonal quality. I can only fully recommend this mod, the Lollar CC is a great investment.

Just bought a P90 type (again humbucker size) to mod the bridge position as well. Wooden pickguard shipping from the US is expected to arrive soon... I am also thinking of changing the tailpiece, somehow the flower does not really fit to the look of the new pups.

its fun! Once completed, I will send some pics.

[3625]

Hoji - That audio clip sounded really good, what type of amp did you use for that?

My '94 was modded a little by the previous owner: GFS paf types, and one of those harp tailpieces you get from StewMac. Mine sounds great through an amp, I think tone-wise it's aging really well.

Stochelo's JP looks very similar to the mods done by the OP - he plays it at 2:22

[Phil in London]

finished...

[nosoyninja]

finished...

Very cool!

[Bigsbyguy]

I was looking for some ideas for my Joe Pass and came across this topic, and site.
I wanted to treat myself to a Jazz box after a particularly long work week last winter. I hit eBay and found a '94 Samick made blonde JP model. 400 w/case shipped. I don't think it's ever been set up but I'm getting to that now.
So far I'm very impressed with it. I know it's ply but the sides are killer flame, the back is Ok but not as fancy. I'd prefer a bit more beef to the neck but it's not too bad. The target player is Jazz so a bigger neck might have been accepted. The stock wiring and pups are fine but I'm having probs with a ground buzz which I'll address. The plastic nut has to go and the frets are in need of attention.
I was impressed enough with the JP I bought an '02 Emperor Regent. Also Blonde, made at the Peerless plant. I yanked the pup and now have a decent acoustic archtop!
If nothing else these guitar's are a good platform for different ideas. I'm thinking about some Bigsby repro pups and a B3 on the JP and a single one on the Emperor.
I prefer the 25+1/2" scale of the Emperor but I wouldn't hesitate to buy another of either model!

[Falling_leaves]

Can anyone explain the function of pot and capacitor for me please?

How important are they in tone?

I have heard that there is something call "non-linear" pot, are they equivalent to 500k? I am confused.

[mongrel]

Hohi, your sound clip sounds great. I have a 2006 Incheon-made Joe Pass and have spliced a few different pickups in it but still have the original pots, caps and switch since I don't have the patience to rewire it. After hearing your clips, I might pay someone to do it, though. I had Phat Cats in the neck and bridge and liked them. Then I put Vintage Vibe HCC's in neck and bridge and they sort of disappointed me since I was expecting something along the lines of what you might get with Lollar's CC pickups and next time I would spend the extra money for Lollars. Currently it still has the Phat Cat in the bridge but I pulled the neck PC and put in a Dimarzio 36th Anniversary which I really like alone and with the bridge Phat Cat. Early on I replaced the fancy tailpiece with an Allparts simple trapeze and a lot of rattles went away. The nut is still original as is the bridge. I tried two tunamatics but ended up with the stock bridge back on. Of course I might like its tone better if I put some new strings on it. The TI Swing 13's have been on it since around 2008. What strings were on yours when you made the sound clip?

[Skiptracer]

Hiho,

Sounds great! I am doing the same mod to my JP Epi, except I got the set of Phat Cats.

Did you use 50's style wireing or modern?

If modern, did you wire in a treble bleed?

Just curious! Thank you for the heads up on the polystyrene caps, they do sound much better.

Skip

[Endorphins]

hmmm...

[Skiptracer]

Ok! Well I ran mine 50's style and want to first say that it is a real pain to get the pots back in with the cap(s) jumping the vol and tone pots.

That said, it sounds fantastic!!! Like OP I was going for the 50s and before jazz tone and it is close. Of course I'm still missing the solid wood vintage Gibson tones, but it is close.

I used braided shield cloth insulated wire throughout and have almost no hum.

Also like the OP I have usable tones from 0-10 on tone knobs. I still have a bit of work to do on pickup height and poll pieces but it is really nice as is.

Neck pickup is 1/8" out of ring and polls are still factory set. Bridge is 1/4" above ring and factory set polls.

[Para]

Try using silicon tubing pushed over the shaft of the pots much easier than string and for the jack socket use an old jack plug shaft in the socket with string attached.

[Skiptracer]

I did use the tubing trick. Even with that it was a beast.