DeArmond 1100 Rhythm Chief

[jasonc]

The floating KA is essentially a floating P-90. It's a very good sounding pickup but it doesn't really sound like a DeArmond. I'm going to buy a reissue and do a comparison to my vintage one. If they sound remotely close I'll be putting them on my Premiers. I love my old DeArmond. It's one of my favorite sounds.

[Doctor Jeff]

Interestingly the 1100 was literally just added about 2 days ago, because I almost pulled the trigger on a 1000 (which they've listed for about a year) last week.

I am still thinking about the 1000 over the 1100 for my Harmony Brilliant Cutaway because the guitar hardware is nickel, not gold. Image matters, you see. I don't see a strong need for pole height adjustment if I will be using nickel strings.

I am wondering what you guys who have purchased them are using for controls and jacks? I was thinking of a Schatten thumbwheel control and an endpin jack. I want to minimize the modification of the guitar and would prefer not to drill a hole in the pickguard for a knob. An endpin jack would require me to drill through the trapeze plate, something I'm also reluctant to do, so I might just install one on the lower bout.

[2bornot2bop]

Thanks Roger. Now, all I've got to do is decide which of my archies with floaters the 1100 clone will go on. I'd love to try it on the 18" Unity. But, the KA single coil with adjustable screw pole sounds really good just the way it is.

Ain't gonna touch either of my Heritage D'Angelicos!

The original Guild AA full size dual coil pup sounds terrible. But, it's unplugged acoustic tone is beautiful. It would seem that would make the AA the best candidate. But, I couldn't live with the less than perfect cut out in the pick guard the the 1100 would create. The best price I've gotten for a repro non cut out AA pick guard is $250. I've just spent $164 on an 1100 clone. I'm not sure I'm going to be keeping the AA for a long period of time. So, do I really want to put another $414 into a guitar than I know I'll not recoup? But, maybe the improved tone of the 1100 will make me totally forget about selling the AA.

My 17" Unity has a full size floater. It was the Heritage #1 pup, which Aaron got from Heritage when he built it in 1994. Not a great pup!! I've since had Kent armstron rebuild the pup with his *innards* and it sounds great. But, I got tired of the gold plated look and sprayed it with a matt black. Now, I totally hate the look!!! I've also got a spare non cut out pick guard for this Unity, (as I do the 18" Unity) so I could easily have that cut out made to a perfect fit for the 1100 clone. Same with the spare pick gurad on the 18" Unity. Then, I could actually switch pick guards on either without ever swapping out the pups. Hmmm . . . that could provide some fun options in different amplified tone with a 5 minute pick guard swap!! That could be interesting.

But . . now what do I do with the brand new Benedetto S6 pup that I bought from the guy who bought my ASB Super Eagle?

Arrgghhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm usually not indecisive and can make immediate decisions. This ain't one of those times.

If these pups were available a few years ago when owning my former AA, and it had a DeArmond 1100 repro pickup and I'd have created an Ebony pickguard of my own choosing I'd still own that AA...as you personally know the AA guitars are acoustic tonal beasts, which I believe are aided by their slight extra depth...what other acoustic is available for the price of the AA at the 3.25", or thereabouts, depth? Short list...zeromundo! just sayin'

[Patrick2]

@Patrick,

My 71 Guild AA has a factory Dearmond and sounds great both amplified and acoustically. I think that you will see an improvement with the Dearmond over the stock PUP in your late model AA, BUT...(There is always a but in life, or is it a butt?) remember that when Guild put humbuckers on the AA, they increased the scale length from 25.5 to 25 and 5/8 (probably to add brightness, compensating for the loss of highs with the humbucker), so you may be better off with a better humbucker as opposed to the single coil Dearmond repro. The Benedetto floater would be a good choice IMO..(and would probably fit well with the stock pickguard)

Good luck sorting it out.

Good point about the scale length . . . never considered that. So now, all things considered in the interest of keeping a dead mint pristine 1995 Guild AA true to original aesthetics . . . as well as improving tone dramatically . . It might be best to just send this pup to Kent Armstrong and have him rebuild the innards. Then, it'll sound great and still look original.

Thanks for the suggestion!

[Patrick2]

Patrick, I'm interested in how you compare the 1100 repro to your KA single coil, since that's really the only alternative for those of us unwilling to shell out $1k for an original.

i bought a repro, but haven't had a chance try it yet. I keep hearing how these are exact copies, but the ohm rating on the repro 1100 is half that of the originals (but same as a p90 or JS). Anyone have insights as to why?

Still not sure which one it's going on. But, I'll keep you posted on the tone. I too am interested in how this will sound in comparison to the hand wound KA 1100 clone that Kent made me for my Super Golden Eagle. I seriously doubt it can sound better, to my ears. The KA is wonderful.

[Frank67]

I am interested in this too. I had a few questions for the experts.

Where do you buy these pots that attach to the pickup? They are apparently not supplied together with the RI pickup.

Is that an output Jack on the backside or do you need to somehow wire another one?

Do you have the guitar cable attach to an output jack on the pickguard or do you have the jack attached somewhere to the endpin or elsewhere?

Excuse my ignorance ... Never seen one in person but I did love the sounds I have heard.

[floatingpickup]

I am interested in this too. I had a few questions for the experts.

Where do you buy these pots that attach to the pickup? They are apparently not supplied together with the RI pickup.

Is that an output Jack on the backside or do you need to somehow wire another one?

Do you have the guitar cable attach to an output jack on the pickguard or do you have the jack attached somewhere to the endpin or elsewhere?

Excuse my ignorance ... Never seen one in person but I did love the sounds I have heard.

The old ones came with a control box attached. The "Guitar Mic" version had a single volume control while the Rhythm Chiefs (1000 and 1100) had Volume, Tone and the pushbutton switch in the control box. Sometimes you see very early models with the cable hard wired to the control box, but most have output jacks on them. Initially, they had a threaded connector which required screw-on cable (see the picture of my 1000) but later they had mini jacks, which you can see on my 1100.

The monkeybar contraption held the pickup in place and the control box hung from the monkeybar behind the bridge. A more permanent installation was accomplished by using the short rod, attached to the neck. In this case, the pushbutton switch, with its threaded ring, was often used to mount the box under the pickguard. Here is a picture of one that I installed on an old D'Angelico this way.

[Greentone]

FWIW, both the old 1000 and the 1100 sounded fantastic. They weren't made identically, but they both featured a sound that put them in a class by themselves, relative to other kinds of pickups. (This goes for the FHC "guitar mic," too. It was also a beautiful pickup, in terms of getting a great jazz sound.)

I have played and owned all three pickups, at one time or another. The last one I had was a monkey stick FCH made in 1969, that I owned until about 15 years ago. Each of these three models of pickup, when used on a good quality acoustic archtop guitar, produces IMO the best sounding electric jazz tone--with the possible exception of the original, Gibson ES-150/250 with CC pickup.

I'm going to order a 1000 to use with my Gretsch. It should yield good results. It already has a screw-plugged hole for the volume knob, where someone else has already previously been using a DeArmond.

[Spook410]

So.. starting point / typical pot values would be 250K - 300K with a treble cap of .047uF like I would start with on a single coil? Wish Schatten thumbwheels came in something other than 500K. May resort to mini-pots on the pickguard for this one.

[Greentone]

I'm just planning to use a 250K pot for volume, with no tone pot.

[dmorash]

Just put a reissue 1100 in my jazzica. Broke the bar trying to bend it so its a sloppy double sided tape ordeal . Diggin the sound . Raw and lots of colour.

[barrymclark]

I have some work to be done to my old New Yorker and I will get a 1000 RI for it.

[floatingpickup]

thanks Keith - looks great.

I get the logic of the design. My question was where to buy that assembly with the volume and tone controls that attaches to the bottom end of the pickguard since it does not seem to be part of what they sell as the RC 1000/1100 reissue on ebay.

Cheers,
Frank

Unfortunately, I don't think anyone makes a replica of a De'Armond control box. You would probably have to find a vintage original one somewhere, if you really want one. I am not sure it is that important though. If you have a reissue De'Armond, why not just put the volume/tone controls on the pickguard and wire it up to an end pin jack?
Keith

[Hep To The Jive]

If you have a reissue De'Armond, why not just put the volume/tone controls on the pickguard and wire it up to an end pin jack?
Keith

Yep.

[2bornot2bop]

Unfortunately, I don't think anyone makes a replica of a De'Armond control box. You would probably have to find a vintage original one somewhere, if you really want one. I am not sure it is that important though. If you have a reissue De'Armond, why not just put the volume/tone controls on the pickguard and wire it up to an end pin jack?
Keith

Like any ordinary floater? Doesn't that blow the mystique?

[Hep To The Jive]

Got it. Thanks Keith!

What did you use Hep to the Jive?

You know, honestly, if you are asking about pot value, no idea- a very good guitar repair guy did it for me. I can ask him. He did drill a hole for the jack in the body, I wanted it like that, like a normal electric guitar.

The pickup is fantastic, turned this not so spectacular acoustic archtop into an awesome gigging jazz guitar.

[Spook410]

Schatten doesn't make their thumbwheels in 250K any more. Could be modded I suppose.

[Para]

Schatten doesn't make their thumbwheels in 250K any more. Could be modded I suppose.

You could put a 500K 1/4 watt resistor across terminals 1 & 3 to make the resistance 250K but it might alter the taper of the pot a bit.

[floatingpickup]

Like any ordinary floater? Doesn't that blow the mystique?

I guess you can still buy a vintage 1100 for the mystique.
Keith

[Woody Sound]

I was hoping to elicit your opinion, Roger. Thanks. Excellent point. My L7 is a '44. I better check to see how much room I have...

Added later: You were right! The KA Floating PAF requires 5/8" clearance (guitar top to depressed string). Even his 2D Micro Humbucker requires 7/16". That might fit my L7. Might. Barely. I think the DeArmond is my best option.

I think the 2D MH is actually 11/32, not 11/16. That's pretty thin.

[Marty Grass]

I'm not sure if this is a response to my post. If so, let me clarify.

As the volume pot is rolled down, often treble is more affected and the sound becomes darker.

You are certainly correct about the pot resistance and treble filtering in general. I got a great example of this when I bought an archtop that had a 50k pot accidentally placed in it. There was no treble. I couldn't even compensate for it with my amp.[

The 500k pot in my 1100 sounds fine. I was worried that there would be too much high frequency coming through. That's not the case IMO.

QUOTE=Para;546759]A 500k pot will give a brighter sound than a 250k not the other way round, the higher resistance stops more treble frequencies from escaping where as the 250k allows more treble bleed off giving a deeper sound which is why 250k pots are used mainly with single coils.[/QUOTE]

[2bornot2bop]

I guess you can still buy a vintage 1100 for the mystique.
Keith

OT. Keith, some of us think your playing is pretty special and we really enjoy your videos. You should know!

Speaking of DeArmond 1100:

or floating pups

[Greentone]

Dang, Keith, your Campy sounds more opened up than the L-5C. I met Mr. Campellone years ago. He had some of his guitars on display. I played them, thinking how beautiful they were. At the time, I thought that they needed to be played a lot--they needed to open up. Compared to the other archtops I was seeing, at that point, the Campy seemed "tight."

Not so, with your beautiful example. Superb.

[2bornot2bop]

Dang, Keith, your Campy sounds more opened up than the L-5C. I met Mr. Campellone years ago. He had some of his guitars on display. I played them, thinking how beautiful they were. At the time, I thought that they needed to be played a lot--they needed to open up. Compared to the other archtops I was seeing, at that point, the Campy seemed "tight."

Not so, with your beautiful example. Superb.

Did you catch this one GT?

here's more trouble too - Okay, so I'm a fan...whatever!

[Flat]

I think the 2D MH is actually 11/32, not 11/16. That's pretty thin.

Thanks for the info, Woody. That is wonderfully thin. KA claims it as the world's thinnest.

I don't know what the story is, really. I'm flying this one blind. All I have is this info from archtop.com.

It confirms the 11/32 depth you mentioned--and then recommends a minimum of 7/16 of clearance (i.e., 14/32).

[Sidenote: Right about now, the metric system sounds really good to me.]

So I don't know what to think. Probably the 2D MH would fit. It looks like I have about maybe 1/2" of clearance on my L7.

And not putting two screws in the neck would ease my mind...

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Armstrong Handmade "2-D" Micro-Humbucker -World's Thinnest Floating Pickup
Dimensions: Length- 2 11/16"; Width- 1 3/16"; Depth: 11/32". Minimum recommended string clearance: approx. 7/16" from guitar top to bottom of strings at the end of the fingerboard, with strings depressed at highest fret.
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