Martin / American Archtop CF2

[Klatu]

I recently did something I never do; I made an impulse decision on a guitar. I walked into my local Guitar Center and saw a Martin/American Archtop CF2 guitar hanging in the used section. I asked to play it and was immediately floored by it's mellow tone, superior neck, and lightweight construction. After spending 20 minutes putting it through the paces, I took it home.

I haven't found much info on this model on the web considering that it was only produces for a short time in limited quantities, so I was hoping to get some more input from forum members.

First of all, did I pay a fair price for it at $2,000? Second, what might the differences be between this model and the American Archtop American Dream model, considering they seem to have nearly identical specs?

By the way, specs for the CF2 are as follows:

MODEL CF-2 Natural
CONSTRUCTION: Mahogany Blocks/Bolt-on Dovetail
BODY SIZE: 17'' x 2-1/2''
TOP: Laminated Alpine Spruce
ROSETTE: none
TOP BRACING PATTERN: Archtop Parallel Brace
TOP BRACES: Solid Sitka Spruce
BACK MATERIAL: Laminated European Flamed Maple
BACK PURFLING: none
SIDE MATERIAL: Solid European Flamed Maple
ENDPIECE: none
ENDPIECE INLAY: none
BINDING: none
TOP INLAY STYLE: none
SIDE INLAY: none
BACK INLAY: none
NECK MATERIAL: Flamed Maple
NECK SHAPE: U Shape Archtop
NUT MATERIAL: Solid Black Ebony
HEADSTOCK: Archtop
HEADPLATE: Black Micarta /Raised Gold Foil American Archtop and CFM (Less Est. in 1833)
HEELCAP: Solid Black Ebony
FINGERBOARD MATERIAL: Solid Black Ebony
SCALE LENGTH: 25''
# OF FRETS CLEAR: 14
# OF FRETS TOTAL: 21
FINGERBOARD WIDTH AT NUT: 1-3/4''
FINGERBOARD WIDTH AT 12TH FRET: 2-1/8''
FINGERBOARD POSITION INLAYS: none
FINGERBOARD BINDING: none
FINISH BACK & SIDES: Polished Gloss/Sunburst
FINISH TOP: Polished Gloss w/ Aging Toner
FINISH NECK: Polished Gloss w/ Aging Toner, Sunburst
BRIDGE MATERIAL: Solid Black Ebony
BRIDGE STYLE: Floating Bridge
BRIDGE STRING SPACING: 2-1/16''
SADDLE: Black Gotoh Tune-O-Matic
TUNING MACHINES: Gotoh Gold 510 w/ Ebony Buttons
BRIDGE & END PINS: none
PICKGUARD: none
CASE: 348BGT (Tweed)
INTERIOR LABEL: Paper Label designed by Dick Boak (signed by Dale Unger)
ELECTRONICS: 2 Seymour Duncan Humbucker Pickups

Photos to come . . .

[kris]

This is a great guitar.

[fws6]

2000 is about right. That is the guitar Dale Unger designed / built for Martin. I dont think the model took off so they're not making them anymore. CF1 is the floating pickup, CF2 is the same model with top mounted pickups. USA made for the price of an import, with a very reputable name on the headstock. x-braced so probably relatively full and warm sounding, but laminated though not carved. So probably more remniscent of a Es350 type guitar than an L5 type. When it first came out many reviews described the neck construction on the CF1 sometimes as a bit (too) weak so take care that the neck angle is good otherwise will be an expensive repair. Martin tried to get into the archtop market a few times over their history but for some reason never was sucesful. These recent archtops certainly have sharp looks compared to the somewhat clumsy looking models they made in the 30s and 60s.

[Klatu]

2000 is about right. That is the guitar Dale Unger designed / built for Martin. I dont think the model took off so they're not making them anymore. CF1 is the floating pickup, CF2 is the same model with top mounted pickups. USA made for the price of an import, with a very reputable name on the headstock. x-braced so probably relatively full and warm sounding, but laminated though not carved. So probably more remniscent of a Es350 type guitar than an L5 type. When it first came out many reviews described the neck construction on the CF1 sometimes as a bit (too) weak so take care that the neck angle is good otherwise will be an expensive repair. Martin tried to get into the archtop market a few times over their history but for some reason never was sucesful. These recent archtops certainly have sharp looks compared to the somewhat clumsy looking models they made in the 30s and 60s.

Is the neck itself supposed to be too weak or is it the neck joint? How can I tell if the angle is acceptable?

The action is perfect as it is, but there doesn't appear to be very much room to adjust it down.

[Klatu]

[Klatu]

[Retroman1969]

Yikes, is that beautiful!
Big improvement over previous archtops by Martin. Congrats!

[Klatu]

2000 is about right. That is the guitar Dale Unger designed / built for Martin. I dont think the model took off so they're not making them anymore. CF1 is the floating pickup, CF2 is the same model with top mounted pickups. USA made for the price of an import, with a very reputable name on the headstock. x-braced so probably relatively full and warm sounding, but laminated though not carved. So probably more remniscent of a Es350 type guitar than an L5 type. When it first came out many reviews described the neck construction on the CF1 sometimes as a bit (too) weak so take care that the neck angle is good otherwise will be an expensive repair. Martin tried to get into the archtop market a few times over their history but for some reason never was sucesful. These recent archtops certainly have sharp looks compared to the somewhat clumsy looking models they made in the 30s and 60s.

I spoke to Dale Unger about the possible neck issues, and he assured me that there is nothing to worry about. He hasn't seen the dovetail neck joint ever give out, and he told me that he'd be willing to work on it personally should anything serious ever go wrong with it.

He's a friendly and helpful guy . . . the kind of builder you want to root for.

[burchyk]

Is that GC somewhere around San Jose, CA? Saw one exactly like that for about the same price but found an issue with neck joint, you could see through it if you looked carefully, the neck and body were not held together properly. I asked the sales people about it and after a little debate between them they took it away declared not for sale anymore. It was a really nice guitar otherwise if a little bit too acoustic sounding for my tastes

[KevinV]

That is a beautiful guitar. I remember when they came out and were on the Martin website...I use to visit frequently for drooling sessions.

[Klatu]

Is that GC somewhere around San Jose, CA? Saw one exactly like that for about the same price but found an issue with neck joint, you could see through it if you looked carefully, the neck and body were not held together properly. I asked the sales people about it and after a little debate between them they took it away declared not for sale anymore. It was a really nice guitar otherwise if a little bit too acoustic sounding for my tastes

Nope. I bought it at the Guitar Center in Miami. I've seen the one you're describing on the web and believe that it's a CF1 acoustic model with a floating pickup.

The neck issue you're describing may be a remnant of the joint system itself. It's a bolt-on dovetail joint similar to that used on Taylor guitars.

If the neck on the guitar you tested truly was unstable, you did both Guitar Center and the buying public a service.

[Pesalo]

Hi - I think this is my first post ever.

I've had a CF-2 for about four years now. Purchased it privately in the UK for about $1500 through and EBAY auction that gave me great value since Martin doesn't have a reputation as a manufacturer of Archtops. It is an early model so suffered some of the case colour bleeding onto the neck. But I rather like this - it gives it character. The previous owner also tried to clean up the pick up covers and succeeded in rubbing off some of the black colour so now they are a fetching blend of black and chrome. Despite this, the tone is amazing and the guitar is a pleasure to play. The whole set up feels incredibly solid and reassuring. There has certainly been no problem with the neck. I set the guitar up when I got it and haven't had to touch anything since. Yes the construction means you can see the join of the neck to the body, but this doesn't seem to make it weak.

I have no idea about the value now, but it is a glorious guitar and of the three archtops I own, it is both, by far the cheapest and the one I go to more than any other and would always choose when playing in public.

It's a great pity that Martin stopped producing this guitar.

Peter

[ben2e]

Is that GC somewhere around San Jose, CA? Saw one exactly like that for about the same price but found an issue with neck joint, you could see through it if you looked carefully, the neck and body were not held together properly. I asked the sales people about it and after a little debate between them they took it away declared not for sale anymore. It was a really nice guitar otherwise if a little bit too acoustic sounding for my tastes

Old thread but I may have run across this guitar. The only thing they admitted to was some finish cracking around the f-hole. What was up with the neck and body again ? I had asked about the neck but they claim it wasn't repaired and needed none.

I like this model on paper. Is it pretty feedback resistent ?

[burchyk]

There was a gap at the joint where you could fit a credit card in there with signs of finish cracking. So I asked them for comments on the issue and they took it off sale.

[edh]

Nope. I bought it at the Guitar Center in Miami. I've seen the one you're describing on the web and believe that it's a CF1 acoustic model with a floating pickup.

The neck issue you're describing may be a remnant of the joint system itself. It's a bolt-on dovetail joint similar to that used on Taylor guitars.

If the neck on the guitar you tested truly was unstable, you did both Guitar Center and the buying public a service.

Unless GC shipped it to their Miami store. (joking )

[ben2e]

Was the gap between the neck and the side or the top ? Just want to know where to look. Do you remember the condition otherwise ? It seems so unlikely it's a different guitar then the one you saw but at least with GC, I can return it (assuming I can detect a repair).

[Klatu]

As I noted earlier in the thread, I spoke to Dale Unger shortly after acquiring my CF2. He told he that it was a terrific bargain because it wasn't all that different from the guitars he builds under the umbrella of American Archtops.

He told me that the differences between the guitars built by Martin and American Archtops were few since they were both designed by him. First, he indicated that the guitars built by American Archtops had carbon fiber rods reinforcing the neck, while the Martin CF series guitars did not. Another difference was the personal attention he gave to the American Archtop series of guitars. He said that he was able to attend to details such as scalloped braces on the American Archtops.

He added that his son had purchased a Martin CF2 and that he enjoyed it as much or more than what he had available to him at his father's shop.

All in all, Dale stands by the quality and value of his Martin/America Archtop CF guitars. He laments the cessation of production and hopes to reissue the Martin Archtop line once/if the economy turns around.

[burchyk]

Look between the neck and the side.

It was a nicely built guitar otherwise, better fretwork then my current Heritage 575. It just had a different sound then I was looking for and did not want to take a risk for any structural issues to pop up after schlepping the guitar overseas.

[Gramps]

I really like the looks of this guitar. I'm sure the neck is fine. How about a sound clip?

[Klatu]

I've never posted a recording anywhere on the web, so I'd first have to learn how. I'll get back to you.

[Klatu]

I still haven't gotten around to learning how to record myself, but here are a couple of videos I found feature the CF2.

[Broyale]

$2000 for a laminate guitar?
That's $1200 too much, no matter how good it supposedly sounds.
I don't get the archtop world at all. With flattops (even those with electronics), $2000 will get you a nearly top-of-the-line all-solid wood instrument, but when it comes to archtops, $2000 gets you an instrument pretty much made the same as a cheap, Guitar Center special $500 asswood flattop. I'm not saying a laminate archtop can't sound good, BUT, shouldn't the inferior laminate construction be reflected in the price?

[Klatu]

So everybody who has bought an ES175 or ES335 has gotten ripped off?

Does your $800 limit for a laminate guitar include taxes?

[PTChristopher]

Hi Broyale,

Fun and thought provoking post, so thanks.

And I promise to limit any jokes about cowboy strummers and dogs with bandanas.

First off, the price differential between solid and laminated tops should arguably be even GREATER in archtops. Wood for a great solid-spruce flat top costs a fraction of the much thicker wood for a carved archtop.

But, consider that for many amplified applications, a laminated guitar works better. Better both in terms of the culturally preferred "tone", and in terms of dealing with the volumes sometimes encountered.

>>> when it comes to archtops, $2000 gets you an instrument pretty much made the same as a cheap, Guitar Center special $500 asswood flattop.

I think your arithmetic may not accurately track all the factors involved here. It may not even track a single factor. But still a good general question about what players will pay for a laminated instrument, particularly if they share your summary view on the technology.

Chris

[Spook410]

Very nice Klatu.. has almost a Shaker simplicity to it. I'm wondering if this will work like an ES350 and be a go-to guitar when you're running your amp to anything other than a whisper. Congratulations.. enjoy.