Replace Pickup on George Benson GB10?

**Section Player** · 03-03-2012, 02:57 PM

The bridge pickup on my GB10 has always sounded awful to me and I bought the guitar new years ago. I love this guitar and have played it more than anything else. Note: both pickups are floating.

I cannot figure out what this second pickup is for. To me it doesn't sound good at anything, or with any tone or EQ adjustments. I have no idea what brand/specification/type pickups Ibanez was installing on these guitars; this one was built at least 15 years ago. What you see in the picture are the original stock pickups.

So, I always play with the toggle selector on the upper pickup. I use light gauge flatwounds and will continue to use them on this guitar no matter what, so using a different gauge or type of string is not going to happen. I have some Thomastiks on it now and they're fabulous with the neck pickup.

I need some advice: what brand/model could I replace the bridge pickup with that would give me some kind of useful sound? I don't play rock or distortion. Maybe an even fatter jazz sound? Or maybe a good acoustic sound? Or maybe a sound dedicated to comping, or to soloing, but staying in the jazz arena? (Yes, I know that sound is an individual preference, etc.! And yes, I know the string dynamics are different down by the bridge.)

I'm not knowledgable about guitar electronics at all. I do know the little screw adjustments in these pickups have been great for balancing out the responses of each string on the neck pickup, but have no useful effect on the bridge pickup.

A picture is attached.

**M-ster** · 03-03-2012, 03:12 PM

I think Benson actually just mixes in a little of the bridge pickup, for clarity, depending on the gig.

I have a GB-10, too, and I never use the bridge pickup, either.

**PTChristopher** · 03-03-2012, 03:41 PM

>>> I cannot figure out what this second pickup is for.

House of the Rising Sun.

But yeah, a weird PU (bridge-ward floater).

I have fooled around with the GB's and I think the best use is to set up a comp mix of both PU's.

So then you have your slightly louder comp on the neck PU, and a slightly quieter but with a touch of scooped (and slightly out-of-phase) treble chime in there using both PU's.

It lets you choose between a more rhythmic-oriented standard comp, or a comp that converses with the melody more, but hangs back enough due to the slightly reduced volume of both PU used in parallel.

Alone I think the bridge is pretty unusable - well maybe a version of the theme from "Hawaii Five-O".

All in my opinion (with some channeling of forum member "Cosmic Gumbo" mixed in for some reason).

Chris

**Patrick2** · 03-03-2012, 04:10 PM

I'm going to suggest a different course of action. Scrap the bridge pup, you say you never use it anyway, and have a new pick guard made to accommodate only the neck floater. If you start messing with alternatives to the bridge pup, you'll eventually wind up spending a bundle of money and frustrate the hell out of yourself with frequent bridge pup changes and probably not find one you will be happy with anyway.

If you're looking for a fatter jazz sound, then get a fatter neck pup and scrap the bridge pup altogether. Kent Armstrong makes some great jazz floating pups.

**cjm** · 03-03-2012, 04:27 PM

It is entirely a matter of personal taste, but for "jazz" sounds, I have never found any situation with any guitar where a bridge pickup enhanced the overall sound. This includes guitars with very expensive boutique pickups marketed to jazzers.

So, my opinion, based solely on my own tastes/prejudices, is that you should do nothing about the bridge pickup. If you are fully satisfied with the jazz sound of the guitar with the neck pickup, and are just trying to find some useful purpose for the bridge pickup: just continue playing with only the neck pickup. Over the decades, that's what most jazzers have done with the two pickup jazz boxes that dominated the market.

On the other hand, if you're not fully satisfied with the sound using the neck pickup alone, don't bother trying to fix it by addressing the poor sounding bridge pickup, because that won't help. Instead, figure out what you don't like about the neck pickup and replace it with a different pickup in the neck position designed to color the sound more to your tastes.

There are some country and rock sounds that need the bridge pickup (although I personally don't much care for them). But for jazz, the bridge pickup is the superfluous nipple of guitardom and is just there for the ride.

Again, just my opinion and many will disagree. However, it's a damned good opinion.

**cjm** · 03-03-2012, 04:29 PM

Oh, I see Patrick posted while I was typing up my long winded response, to say much the same thing with fewer words.

Well, that just reinforces my opinion!

**Section Player** · 03-03-2012, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick2

I'm going to suggest a different course of action. Scrap the bridge pup, you say you never use it anyway, and have a new pick guard made to accommodate only the neck floater. If you start messing with alternatives to the bridge pup, you'll eventually wind up spending a bundle of money and frustrate the hell out of yourself with frequent bridge pup changes and probably not find one you will be happy with anyway.

If you're looking for a fatter jazz sound, then get a fatter neck pup and scrap the bridge pup altogether. Kent Armstrong makes some great jazz floating pups.

Patrick: why would I have to have a new pick guard made in order to replace the neck floater? (Or did I misunderstand you?) Does Armstrong make a neck floater that will retrofit to this guitar without having to replace the pickguard.....if you know?

I'm paying attention to all the comments here and am convinced to forget about the bridge pickup, and maybe even just remove it. Of course I'll keep it either way in case I ever sell the guitar just so it could be put back to "original" if any buyer were to care about that.

**hans halmackenreuter** · 03-03-2012, 06:30 PM

i may have a different idea, though probably not a good one. i don't know very much about your guitar, but in case you're pu's give you the option of integrating a coilsplit system, than both pu's in splittet mode can produce a fine comping sound if mixed togehter.

**Section Player** · 03-03-2012, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by hans halmackenreuter

i may have a different idea, though probably not a good one. i don't know very much about your guitar, but in case you're pu's give you the option of integrating a coilsplit system, than both pu's in splittet mode can produce a fine comping sound if mixed togehter.

Hans, this guitar's toggle switch does have a middle position, which combines the two pickups. Then you adjust their volumes individually. I haven't experimented much with that approach but I probably should.

**PTChristopher** · 03-03-2012, 06:51 PM

It is likely that Hans is not simply talking about the middle PU switch position, but rather about using both PU's with just s single coil from each PU used.

Your guitar is not currently wired for coil-splitting as Hans mentions.

And some players are just not going to use the PUs combined for comping anyway, split coils or not.

Chris

**Bebop Tom** · 03-03-2012, 07:22 PM

I own a blonde GB10 that is a few years old. I agree with the others who say just leave it in the neck position. Most people who own two pickup Gibson L5s and 175s do the same thing. The bridge pickup does not have much use in jazz. Yes, you can mix in a little bridge pickup volume while in the middle position. But I would simply leave the guitar as it is. I feel that the pickups were made specifically for that guitar, as they are on the hot side which makes the small bodied guitar sound bigger when amplified. A new floater may not work as well. Good enough for George Benson, good enough for me.

**hans halmackenreuter** · 03-03-2012, 07:47 PM

correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't the gb built to cope both style's of benson? perhaps the bridge pu was made for the popular style. if so, than i wouldn't worry about the fact that it doesn't suit well to jazz. i play mostly neck-pu, so for me it wouldn't be a big deal, if the bridge-pu seems to be useless.

but if you play with delay and, or with other modulation effects the sound "can" be sometimes a little bit more defined, if you use the bridge-pu, especially if play with the string-gauge benson does.

**Section Player** · 03-03-2012, 09:05 PM

Thanks, PT and Hans.....I missed that interpretation (coil-splitting) entirely. And, that's not a modification I'd want to do. It's an interesting idea, though. I never heard of it or maybe saw it in stores and didn't know what it was.

**Philco** · 03-03-2012, 09:26 PM

George is almost always on the front even when his sound seems quite thin.

The only time I've seen him flick the switch is when he's comping some R+B or funky tune.....when the keyboardist is soloing.

He's on the rear Pup at around 3.55 in this clip.

Warning. This solo will make mere mortals feel inadequate.

**Patrick2** · 03-03-2012, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by Section Player

Patrick: why would I have to have a new pick guard made in order to replace the neck floater? (Or did I misunderstand you?) Does Armstrong make a neck floater that will retrofit to this guitar without having to replace the pickguard.....if you know?

I'm paying attention to all the comments here and am convinced to forget about the bridge pickup, and maybe even just remove it. Of course I'll keep it either way in case I ever sell the guitar just so it could be put back to "original" if any buyer were to care about that.

My comments on replacing the pick guard were referencing the elimination of the bridge pup. Is the pick guard not cut or drilled for the rear pup mounting? If you want to just leave the rear pup there and not use it, and also upgrade to a better pup the size of your existing neck pup, I you could do that as well.

**PTChristopher** · 03-03-2012, 11:15 PM

Hey Philco,

Great vid selection - really illustrates how the mid-PU switch section knocks back the punch and lets him stay out of the way of the keys, while comping and conversing.

In my opinion.

Chris

**korey-craft** · 03-03-2012, 11:35 PM

Finding a replacement floating bridge pickup may be tough, why not have it rewired? Curtis Novak does custom rewinds for $60 I think. Sure he could sort it out to your tonal tastes

**RuffRider** · 03-03-2012, 11:59 PM

If you'd like to hear an example of George Benson using a blend of both the neck and bridge pickups together in a solo situation (the bridge pickup is slightly lower in volume than the neck pickup) - check out his rendition of "Don't Let Me Be Lonely Tonight" on the "Songs And Stories" CD.
But he's playing with his thumb which smooths it out a little.

**M-ster** · 03-04-2012, 02:53 AM

Originally Posted by Philco

... He's on the rear Pup at around 3.55 in this clip.

Warning. This solo will make mere mortals feel inadequate.

Ha! All of George's solos make *me* feel inadequate!

Good clip.

**Philco** · 03-04-2012, 03:04 AM

Originally Posted by PTChristopher

Hey Philco,

Great vid selection - really illustrates how the mid-PU switch section knocks back the punch and lets him stay out of the way of the keys, while comping and conversing.

In my opinion.

Chris

Yeah it's a cool Vid and perfect for the OP to see where to use that rear pup sound.
I also noticed that George started playing right next to the bridge when he selected that pup, to make the sound even more cutting I guess.
He's so relaxed in that clip. Great keyboard player....actually it's a freaking great band!

**Jabberwocky** · 03-04-2012, 05:56 AM

How about Bireli Lagrene and his L5 CES :

?

Starts the set on the bridge pup and at 2:35 flicks it over to the neck pup.

I'll just leave the bridge pup on the GB10 alone. When you need it, at least it's there.

**yebdox** · 03-04-2012, 10:57 AM

There's a pic somewhere of Benson playing a GB10 with full sized humbuckers mounted in the top, ala an L5 or 175. I think that combo of tones could be interesting, given what a 175 can do and sound like that a GB10 cannot. But I'm on board with everyone else here... I never use the bridge pickup. I love the guitar the way it is. Just removing the bridge PU seems pointless. It wouldn't look as cool and you'd have two dead pots or their respective holes to fill. Just leave it. You can use it for your cover of "Somewhere In the East"! (Beyond the Blue Horizon)

I thought when I got my new Sadowsky (Jim Hall) that I might be able to get rid of the GB10 (I have an L5, as well, but could never let that go) but I still think there is no other guitar like it, especially for the money..... It stays forever! (One more girlfriend, as my wife puts it.) Celebrate the difference and do what I'm trying to do... Practice more and spend a little less time obsessing over gear (although it is great fun.)

**Jabberwocky** · 03-04-2012, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by yebdox

Snip...(I have an L5, as well, but could never let that go) but I still think there is no other guitar like it, especially for the money..... It stays forever! (One more girlfriend, as my wife puts it.) Celebrate the difference and do what I'm trying to do... Practice more and spend a little less time obsessing over gear (although it is great fun.)

I'll only let go of my L-5 Wes when I go to that Big Smokey Jazz Club in the Sky. I know the feeling, man. You don't own an L-5, it owns you. And it and only it decides whether to let you go or not.

Sorry to gush like an L-5 Wes fanboy but it is just soooo riiight.

**Section Player** · 03-04-2012, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by yebdox

There's a pic somewhere of Benson playing a GB10 with full sized humbuckers mounted in the top, ala an L5 or 175. I think that combo of tones could be interesting, given what a 175 can do and sound like that a GB10 cannot. But I'm on board with everyone else here... I never use the bridge pickup. I love the guitar the way it is. Just removing the bridge PU seems pointless. It wouldn't look as cool and you'd have two dead pots or their respective holes to fill. Just leave it. You can use it for your cover of "Somewhere In the East"! (Beyond the Blue Horizon)

I thought when I got my new Sadowsky (Jim Hall) that I might be able to get rid of the GB10 (I have an L5, as well, but could never let that go) but I still think there is no other guitar like it, especially for the money..... It stays forever! (One more girlfriend, as my wife puts it.) Celebrate the difference and do what I'm trying to do... Practice more and spend a little less time obsessing over gear (although it is great fun.)

I agree; I'll leave it as is....and I'm not "obsessing"; just taking advantage of all the expertise here. It's still ok to ask for opinions, right?

**yebdox** · 03-04-2012, 11:24 PM

Absolutely cool to ask, sorry if I sound pushy, I often wonder about the same things. From personal experience, I know I'm prone to futzing with gear a little too much, and not hitting the tough part of practicing as often as I should. You are probably no where near as bad as me

Half the fun of playing a great guitar is wondering about changes that get you closer to the tone in your head. Then some talented guy like Peter Bernstein or Rodney Jones comes along and dang? They still sound great on the same guitar I think needs an upgrade!

No offense, I'm reading my own weakness into your questions and I'm happy you asked and wonder about it, as I have (why did they put it there in the first place?) If I had more time and a 2nd GB10, I think I would router it out and do the body mount larger buckers, just to see what it sounds like. And, then maybe pick up a Sadowsky Jimmy Bruno and compare those! But, I really should stop and get back to transposing some Wayne Shorter or Wes, or Peter Bernstein, or work on my chord soloing, or harmonics or descending arpeggio sweeps, or.... You see, I frequently suffer from GAS, so I assume everyone else does.

Don't mess with that guitar!