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My old thread about a search for a bop/fusion amp seems to have gone cold, so I thought I'd start a new one based on recent findings.
It's taken a while to come to grips with tube amps - but I think I now understand things a bit better. My first tube amp was a Fender Champ - I really loved the tone, but I sold it for something bigger (a Twin). Scroll forward - ahem - a few years. Recently I tried a Fender Supersonic 22 and also the 60 watt one. With the 22 on clean, with the fat switch on, I heard the same tone I got all those years ago. I've also read good things on this forum about the Deluxe Reverb and Princeton, which share the same power valves - 6V6s. I realise now why I hate that chimey Fender clean sound, like on the Supersonic 60 - 6L6 tubes.
I'm not prepared to pay nearly a thousand pounds for an amp (the 22) which only has one sound that I like - the dirty channel sounded harsh to me. The other Fenders with 6V6s don't have effects loops, which seem to me an important feature, plus I'm really looking for a head.
There are other manufacturers who use 6V6s, like Matamp or Cornell, but don't think a loop is important either. The two possibilities I can think of
at the moment are a) The Two-Rock Exo-15 or Studio Pro 22 - very expensive and none available as far as I can see - but some impressive demo videos; or b) to get an Tweed style amp made by someone like Barry Vyse, who's taken over Torres.
I've given up with the idea of a two channel amp now - one that gets a rich warm clean and a smooth overdrive in the same amp - now that would be a lot of glass in one box..
Just wondering if anybody else is thinking along similar lines and have tried any low power 6V6 amps they'd recommend for Jazz.
Jamie
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02-12-2012 08:58 AM
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I jumped on the 6v6 bandwagon many years ago. It's my favorite power tube by a wide margin, & I just love the sounds & feel they produce. Currently I have 3 amps powered by 6v6's, a tweaked 5e3 tweed deluxe clone, & 2 Z-28's from Dr.Z that I run in stereo. While these amps aren't what I'd call ideal amps for pure clean classic jazz, they do excel at the west coast jump swing I like to play these days. The will do clean at lower volumes just fine. The Z-28 is most often compared to the Fender brown Deluxe. At one time I had a really pristine non-reverb '65 blackface Princeton, & that amp did great jazz cleans all day long. I regret selling it. The 5e3 is wild beast, & hard to control at times, which is why I've had it tweaked a little for more clean headroom & a wider sweet spot on the range of the volume knobs.
A lot can be accomplished with careful speaker selection to tailor the sound & feel to personal choice and different music styles.
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In my experience, there is also a very wide variety in the breakup level of 6V6 tubes out there. I have 2 sets of Mesa tubes rated "10 AC RED" and they have a very significant increase in clean headroom over any other 6V6 I have tried.
They are presumably available under other brand names as well, but I have found the Mesa ratings to be very dependable.
EDIT: Based on my poor understanding of Mesa's rating system, there may well be tubes rated for even later breakup - these just work well for me in terms of remarkable clean headroom. There is an endless amount of opinion out there on Mesa's rating system, and incredible as it may seem on the web, much of it is far different from Mesa's own description of their own rating system.Last edited by PTChristopher; 02-12-2012 at 10:27 AM.
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Man the two channel amp blues! Is there a good tube amp that has a good second channel for overdrive? If there is it has to be a rare beast. They should make a tube amp with a single channel BUT an EQ friendly Footswitchable atuentor that would compliment the clean channel. That would be sweet. have preset volumes for managable tube crunch
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You might check out Carol-Ann 6v6 channel switchers:
Originally Posted by korey-craft
Carol-Ann Custom Amplifiers, LLC
OD2r
OD3r
Trip-r
HS-2 model
All of these amps are cathode biased and can use 6v6 power tubes.
Stellar cleans with useable OD channels suitable for fusion, blues, & rock.Last edited by Cobra; 02-12-2012 at 10:57 AM.
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Those Carol-Ann amps sound like the biz, and unfortunately way out of my price range! Interesting how different styles of music warrant different expenditure. The upright bassist I'm recording with at the moment tells me his 1820 bass is worth about £16,000. I asked him if that was the sort of instrument members of the back line of the LSO would use - "Oh no, they tend to play Kennedy's worth 50-60 thousand". Thank God I don't need a '57 Les Paul to be able to play! Most guitarists, tend to spend more on the instrument than the amp. Then I guess it all comes down to personal fortune - I read recently that Scofield decided not to go for a Dumble as it was too much. My Godin LGX-SA was as much as a Two-Rock 22 Studio Pro - I think that's about as much as I'd consider paying these days. I was impressed with the YouTube demo by a guy in a Dutch guitar shop - he doesn't play anything in the way John Scofield demos the 15 Watt amp, but you get the impression they scaled the 22 Watt amp down to appeal to a younger player:
I'm worried if I go for the custom made Tweed, it won't have as much flexibility and be as suitable for studio use in terms of low noise etc.
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Add Rivera to the list. Originally Posted by korey-craft
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Rivera are more in my range. The problem with wanting a 6V6 amp is by definition they are low wattage. I need a 12" speaker, and I see the 6v6 Riveras use a smaller cab; the larger combos use the EL34. They do a small head with 6V6s, but I think I'll set my minimum power requirement at 20W. So close..
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is there a major difference between a 6L6 and a 6V6? This may not be the place to ask this question tho.
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I only know that the 6L6 is a higher output power tube, which gives you that "chimey" Fender clean sound, KC. Incidentally TK, I see Rivera do a higher powered 6V6 amp, the Venus 6, 35W by using 4 power tubes. The 112 combo would be 70lbs with an EV speaker in it, thus breaking my back and bank account at the same time!
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I can see your point with fender amps tho. If you look at the guitar line they offer, Teles, Jazzmasters, and Jaguars, especially are three guitars known for emitting a "bell" like quality, a ringing. Fender amps certainly do project this idea of sound quite well. I at one point was looking for both warmth and drive so I went the Ampeg Jet route, paired a Super Jet (6L6's 50 watts) a Jet (EL84 15) and run them with a a/b/y switched. Seemed to work tho the 15 was way too loud.
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I am also curious about 6l6 vs 6v6. I know some guys love 6v6 so much that to have more power they use 4x 6v6.
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Has anyone ever tried the Tone King Metropolitan for Jazz? 4x 6V6, 2 channels, power scaling up to 40 Watts and judging from the YouTube demos a lovely Fender sound...
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Just out of curiosity why not focus on having a great clean sound on the amp and using pedals for dirt?
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I see that Tone King amp is £2,500 in the UK. I'm thinking it must be possible to get a good clean sound for less than 4 Grand US! I'm now thinking along the lines of using my DG-80 for the fusion tones, which is only 20-30% of my stuff, and getting a nice 25W 6V6 amp to do the clean to crunch side of things. It's a shame it's not fashionable any more, and it seems like the boutique market may be the only option.
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Just a last thought from me on this for now. I came across this thread on another forum: New amp time!!! 6V6 amp suggestion - Telecaster Guitar Forum There are some other lists and suggestions out there I've seen. Basically three or four choices, I see. Get a Tweed type amp custom built, or a second hand one rebuilt. Then the boutique options. There are a lot of exotic beasts out there! I looked at details of Budda, Top Hat, Rivera, DR Z, Carol-Ann, Tone King, SJB Ant etc. I'm not sure I'd be happy with a purple amp, or one with just two knobs, or spending big bucks with a small company in these recession hit times that will probably go to the wall in a year or two - is that a bit harsh? I tried out a Cornford amp the other week and they told me the company is only producing an amp a week. Then again, the amp companies that go out of business, well, their amps will go for huge amounts.. I think it's probably better for me to stick with a bigger company if I'm going to buy new. Sorry for the pessimism, chaps.
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I don't think a 6v6 per se will determine everything. A Princeton / Deluxe 6V6 blackface should sound very different from a Tweed 6V6.
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Hi there.
Try this one out, Traynor Darkhorse
Traynor Amps: All Tube Guitar Heads
Small and useful for club gigs. 15 watts, only 7 down on the DRRI
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Looks like these guys may do exactly what you need: MAJ Electronic
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I was posting that in a few minutes - I found them today because og their new "jazz amp". And they are in the UK - easier for you (VitaSigns) to deal i guess.
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Thanks for those, guys. Much more reasonable moneywise. Shame the Traynor has no reverb or effects loop. The Ameson guy has a sense of humour - I love it! I'll see if they could whip something up for me.
Cheers
Jamie
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I like both 6V6 and 6L6 amps. I love my Deluxe Reverb, and my tweed Deluxe (6V6). Also love my Vibroverb, Bandmaster and Tweed Twin (6L6). I love simple Fender amps, and one great tone is better than an infinite number of weak tones, so switching amps are just not my thing. Be careful, all my amps require different tone settings, you'll need to use your ears and move those knobs freely to find the strength of each amp.
For a versatile amp, IMO you can't do much better than a Deluxe Reverb Reissue though.
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Yes, I guess if you think of pianists or sax players, they have their basic sound and that fits a variety of musical forms. You wouldn't expect McCoy to get out an accordian, or Jerry Bergonzi his ocarina, on different numbers. There are certain non-swing tunes of mine with complex time signatures for example, which seem to suggest a different sound to me. I'd be happy with just reverb otherwise, but I prefer EV speakers and I'm not sure I could handle a DRRI without serious injury. A boutique or custom head seems to be the only solution I can see.
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Guitar Amp Repairs, Custom Amp Builds, Speakers - JPF Amplification
London based - another option for you.
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VitalSigns - You didn't mention what you have now, however what I did that I found useful, I had my tech install a couple of switches in my Twin. The first switch allows me to use 6V6s or 6L6s and the second switch allows me to run half power (just pulling two tubes is not good on the output tranny). So if you have an amp you like already, a little modding can be much cheaper than buying a new amp. Food for thought...
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