What makes a string buzz?

**Retroman1969** · 01-10-2012, 08:47 AM

Besides being too close to a fret, or a loose component.
I've really been playing the heck out of my Eastman AR371, but one little problem has cropped up...

The B-string has started buzzing, and sounds just like a sitar when plucked.
The problem is, I can't find an obvious cause for it. I put more relief in the neck, raised the bridge sky high, and dampened the string behind the bridge and the nut. It still does it even with all of that. And it does it no matter where you fret the string, all the way up the neck.

With the neck and action set back to normal, I inspected the the string path with a magnifying glass and pen light while plucking. It comes nowhere near touching any frets. Not even the first fret.

Before I take it to my luthier, is there anything I'm missing? I thought the string might be bad, but can a plain unwound string even go bad?

I appreciate any suggestions. Thanks!

**PTChristopher** · 01-10-2012, 09:43 AM

If the string buzzes under all conditions, then the bridge is the common element and a possible cause. This assumes that you have looked for all the usual suspects for sympathetic vibrations.

But online diagnosis is really not an efficient way to go here. In-hand work by someone who knows what they are doing will almost certainly get your buzz cleared easily.

Chris

**Retroman1969** · 01-10-2012, 11:04 AM

Thank Chris, you're right.
It's new and needs my guru to give it a good once-over anyway.

**Patrick2** · 01-10-2012, 12:27 PM

While I agree with what PTChristopher said about on line diagnosis and leaving it up to a qualified guitar tech to find the source and correct it . . . . . my curiousity just would not allow me to do that. It sounds like you have already done just about everything that a guitar tech would start out doing . . . except one thing . . . change the damn string. But, doing so might correct the problem without ever discovering what it was to begin with. If you haven't done so already, I would be curious about the results of completely loosening the string to the point where you could realign the ball end in the tail piece and then retune it. The thing that glares out at me is your comments of "one little problem has cropped" up . . . and "the B string has started buzzing" I interpret that to mean that it played fine for a while with no buzzing. Therefore, the possibility of a defective string, while unlikely with an non-wound string, does exist. Loosen it up, reset it, retune it and see what happens. If it still sounds like a sitar, change the string. If it then still sounds like a sitar . . . sell it to Ravi Shankar

(is he even still alive?)

**Retroman1969** · 01-10-2012, 02:34 PM

LOL!
Thank you Patrick.
Yes, it played fine the first couple of days, then started up. I played around with everything and it went away for a day, then came back, so it hasn't been 100% consistent. Just most of the time.
I removed the string a bit ago and re-set, re-tuned it. The buzz went away. It still doesn't sound great (that one string, kind of fuzzy/tinny) but its not buzzing right now. I'm going to just pick up a replacement string out of curiosity to see what it does.

It's still going to get the usual custom setup by my tech, who transforms even the most decent playing instruments. But like you say, my curiosity is preventing me from leaving it alone until my guy can get to it.

Thanks again for the great suggestions guys!

**cosmic gumbo** · 01-10-2012, 06:14 PM

Mysteriously enough, every now and then a string buzzes because it thinks it's a bumblebee, and you just have to show it that it isn't. Sometimes you need to lubricate the saddle.

**Retroman1969** · 01-10-2012, 08:22 PM

Lol, Mystery of mysteries...
Okay, after playing it awhile, the buzz came back, though not as strong, so I put on a new B-string, same size as the old one (.16mm) and the buzz was still there.
Thinking about the bridge, like Chris mentioned, I shifted the string over towards the G-string about 1mm, and "boom", the buzz is gone and the string sounds right. Chimes beautifully.
I can only conclude that the small shallow groove filed in the top of the rosewood bridge is affecting the string vibration somehow. Not sure how.
If my tech determines the bridge has an issue, I'm hoping Eastman will replace it under warranty.

**PTChristopher** · 01-10-2012, 08:45 PM

Ah, well if you think about how a sitar gets all sitary, then it seems that the string is not braking off the front of the bridge but breaking a bit back from the front.

So the string makes marginal contact with the bridge slightly in front of the break point - and you gets you some buzz.

You can replace the bridge, but this is also a very fast fix.

1. You take the bridge down 1mm, or often less, and restore the grooves.

2. You get crazy with crazy glue and a small bit of wood (rose or ebony to match the bridge), and just restore the one groove that has gone rogue.

3. You get a new bridge.

Glad to hear that you are making progress on this.

EDIT: A effective groove will slope backward a bit toward the tailpiece. This makes the string make clean contact with the front edge of the bridge and go clearly on its merry way to the nut.

But instead, imagine a groove that is parallel to the path from the bridge to the nut, or even microscopically sloped sown toward the nut. This would allow the string to buzz against the bridge.

The dimensions involved can be tiny - so even a string change can affect the break over the front of the bridge enough to start or stop the problem.

Way-easy fix. (If this is indeed the problem, we are still cyber-luthiating here.)

Chris

**Retroman1969** · 01-10-2012, 09:38 PM

Thank you for the extra info. Chris!
I took a close look at it, and it appears the groove is sitting flat across (parallel to the string path) the top of the bridge.
I'm going to have my tech confirm this when he can get to it, and either let him fix it while he's at it, to make sure I don't mess up or somehow void the warranty, or send to the company for a replacement.

I know it's only guesswork going over the net, but I'm a bit OC, and stuff like this drives me crazy, so I really appreciate all the input!

**PTChristopher** · 01-10-2012, 10:43 PM

>>> I'm a bit OC, and stuff like this drives me crazy,

Hah, are you kidding? I have gotten up in the middle of the night to fool around with a nut slot.

OK, that did not come out right - but yes, I definitely understand about wanting to track down little guitar problems. Glad to have been part of your OC thread.

**Patrick2** · 01-10-2012, 11:03 PM

[quote=PTChristopher;194067]>>>

I have gotten up in the middle of the night to fool around with a nut slot.

OK . . . . now there's a scary thought!!!!!!

**Retroman1969** · 01-10-2012, 11:34 PM

XD
Oh man! (my mind did not automatically go there, lol)

And I thought I was the only one that had a habit of getting up in the middle of the night to work on something that was bugging me, no matter how trivial.

**Retroman1969** · 01-15-2012, 12:38 AM

Well, it's fixed!
Took it back to the music shop where I bought it and had their repair/restoration expert look at it. Before I could even tell him what the suspected cause was, he plucked the string and said "Oh, here's the problem. This slot in the bridge is cut flat across. Needs to have a bit of a back angle on it."
He re-filed the slot in the bridge and she sings clean and clear now.

Thank you guys again for your input! Now I'm going to go enjoy this baby!

**Tom Karol** · 01-15-2012, 10:23 AM

That's great! And good info to have in my hip pocket if I ever run into the same problem. "Some of the worst things in my life never happened." - Mark Twain

**va3ux** · 01-15-2012, 10:48 AM

I had this exact same condition on a guitar. After careful inspection, the guitar guy took a small, very fine file and applied to 2 very light strokes to the V-notch in the bridge for that string. My initial thought was, " What the hell is he doing ? This has to be a high fret." Nope. Problem solved. I was really surprised.

**PTChristopher** · 01-15-2012, 10:49 AM

Retro,

Glad to hear that it all worked out.

Chris

**PTChristopher** · 01-15-2012, 10:53 AM

>>> V-notch

Ooooh. I know this term may get used casually, but in practice notches that are actually a "V" in shape are pure evil.

Strings get stuck in V grooves, then suddenly "ping" and move slighty while tuning or playing. This makes tuning a significant chore on some guitars.

Far better to cut each notch to be slightly (really very slightly) larger in diameter than the string and with a semi-circular base to the notch.

a "V" sounds like a good idea because it can presumably accommodate a variety of string sizes. But a V can be a sticky poor fit on all strings.

In my opinion.

**va3ux** · 01-15-2012, 11:18 AM

V-notch : yea that's my off-hand description and it may not accurately describe what is actually there.

Either way, you're absolutely right and I have read that before.

**Retroman1969** · 01-15-2012, 02:32 PM

Thank you,
Yeah, it's another one to chalk up to experience along the path to getting more familiar with my instrument. Ultimately all these things will help improve my competence in both maintaining and playing it. Overall, understanding how it works!

**Tom Karol** · 01-30-2012, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Tom Karol

That's great! And good info to have in my hip pocket if I ever run into the same problem.

Well. I changed strings on my new AR403, and I did have almost the same problem! It's on the high E string and it's much more subtle than yours was. I tried another string (and made sure it was solidly seated in the tailpiece), and now it's barely perceptible (or I'm just still imagining it). But I told my tech about it and the likely cause and he said I was probably right and he could fix it in a minute. Without this forum as a source of information, I would be having a panic attack, LOL!

By the way regarding straight slanted archtop bridges, since I was examining the bridge so closely due to the above, I rechecked the intonation: It's perfect on the 4 outer strings and very close on the 2 middle strings, so I guess a mildly compensated saddle does offer a small benefit - not enough in my case to replace what I have though.