How To Look After A Carved Archtop

**AZanshin** · 10-01-2011, 04:25 PM

Am soon receiving an Archtop with a carved top and and I remember reading that these guitars need a bit more care than there laminate counterparts.

I remember reading something about the room its kept in needs a air humidifier or needs to be kept at a certain temperature .

So how do you/ how are you supposed to look after these guitars?

**kamlapati** · 10-01-2011, 09:43 PM

Medium humidity and small temperatures are good for all acoustic guitars. In central California I keep mine, old and new, out on a stand in my living room all year round with no ill effects. In more continental climates you might need to humidify the guitar in it's case. 40% to 60% humidity is the sweet spot.

Don't ever leave it in your car.

**Patrick2** · 10-02-2011, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by kamlapati

Medium humidity and small temperatures are good for all acoustic guitars. In central California I keep mine, old and new, out on a stand in my living room all year round with no ill effects. In more continental climates you might need to humidify the guitar in it's case. 40% to 60% humidity is the sweet spot.

Don't ever leave it in your car.

Yep! "That's the ticket". It's been discussed here several times. If you do a search here on this forum on the subject, it'll bring lot's of good info.

But, to briefly recap . . . what kamlapati said is a good general rule. Here's anothe rule I try to live by as it relates to my arch top collection; Temperature of 70 degrees Fahrenheit and 50% relative humidity is the perfect world. However, it would cost a fortune in technically sophistocated climate control apparatus to precisely maintain that perfect world. So, I shoot for those numbers, then I prevent swings of more than 10% in relative humidity and 5% in temperature. It seems to work perfectly for me. I have many carved arch tops on stands all year round and I never even need to adjust truss rods and very rarely need to "dramatically" retune them.

It's the constant extreme fluctuation in temp and humidity that is most damaging to crafted stringed instruments. Solid bodies are less affected by it.

**AZanshin** · 10-02-2011, 01:56 PM

So how would I measure or control the temperature in my current room?

**Newport** · 10-02-2011, 02:08 PM

You can buy a hemostat from your local guitar shop. Planet waves makes an excellent one that tracks both temp and humidity for around $20. It also keeps a running log for averages. A cheap digital one with no temp readout could be bought from a cigar shop for under $10. If the room is colder than 68 or warmer than 75 you and your guitar both will most likely be uncomfortable.

**Jabberwocky** · 10-02-2011, 02:35 PM

I have no experience with this product: Music Sorb - Gentle Humidity Control . But it could be a viable solution.

**cjm** · 10-02-2011, 02:44 PM

It only makes sense to take some steps to minimize the potential damage to guitars caused by wide (and sudden) changes in temperature and humidity.

At the same time, I think some people are afraid that hollow body archtops are as delicate as a souffle in the oven and as fragile as an egg. But they really aren't and that's true of both laminate and solid carved wood construction.

An archtop guitar is a marvel of lightweight wooden construction, true. However, the strength to weight ratios of the woods used exceeds that of steel and the design incorporates engineering principles found in other "light weight" but incredibly robust structures like suspension bridges and arched dams.

Cured woods exchange water with the atmosphere, but it is a gradual process. That's why it takes considerable time to air dry woods prior to building a guitar from those woods. But that also means that the seasonal humidity swings in most temperate climate zones usually isn't a huge problem. Consistently dry desert or the driest steppe climates might call for a humidifier to avoid shrinkage and splitting...but that's not something that is likely to happen within a matter of weeks or a couple of months.

As to temperature...if you're even close to being comfortable at rest or light activity in shirt sleeves, then odds are, your guitar is comfortable too. I tend to be cold...I like the house kept around 75 degrees F (and yes, my wife complains bitterly). I've got a buddy with so much arthritis pain that he wants the house at about 85 degrees F winter and summer. I've got a sister who keeps her house at about 62 degrees F in winter and claims she's dieing of heat stroke any time it gets over 65...and there have been archtop guitars in each of these homes for the past 35 to 45 years without damage.

In a prefect world, the same would be true of the double bass, but unfortunately the double bass was designed to self destruct at the first opportunity...

**papaj77** · 10-02-2011, 03:34 PM

I've frequently traveled between Poland and Scotland (quite a change in both humidity and temperature) and never had a problem with acoustic flattops and archtop). I don't think it's such a big problem as many people think.

**kambor** · 10-02-2011, 04:50 PM

papaj77, if you took the guitar out of the case inmediately, you've been more than lucky.

Think about it, a guitar is a closed box. When the humidity drops, the wood will shrink (or try to). The thing is, if the humidity is low enough, some wood will break sooner or later, because the rest of the box will be shrinking. Normally the top is what breaks because it has a weaker structure (because it's designed to vibrate), so probably it will show a crack.

Maybe an archtop is a little bit stronger than a flattop in that sense, but nonetheless it will break given enough speed and range in change (if the wood doesn't break, it can separate from the glue, or twist the sides...not to talk about the poor neck).

**papaj77** · 10-02-2011, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by kambor

papaj77, if you took the guitar out of the case inmediately, you've been more than lucky.

I always leave guitar for 2-3 hours before I take them out the case. Should've said that in my last post.
But I have guitar which I was taking with me sailing ( this means really dump and cold sometimes) it's 17 years old now and there is not even one crack on it, neck i straight not even one little problem with it.

So i think if you're careful in normal home- gig situation there is no big danger.

I'm not saying you don't have to be careful, just it's no point to get paranoid.

**spiral** · 10-02-2011, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Newport

You can buy a hemostat from your local guitar shop.

Ew. I would never trust the hygiene of a music store worker for my hemostats.

A hygrometer is best if you are concerned about big humidity fluctuations. Buy a digital one for $20 or $30. Don't buy an analog one. They are inaccurate and expensive. I live in the midwest and the only thing i worry about is humidifying the room when the humidity drops below 30% (heating in the winter). Most heaters should have humidifiers that keep your space humidified. Beyond that, if i am comfortable temperature-wise--as cjm said--so are my guitars. I rarely worry much about it unless it is unusually dry.

LOL @ cjm. I'm moving in with you guys. We keep our house at 64 F in the winter.

**tonedeaf** · 10-03-2011, 12:39 AM

I live in an area where the humidity drops to below 20% in my house in the winter. It drives my archtop (and even my laminate) crazy. Optimal humidity is just not practical in my house. So I got a humidifier for my guitar room and have been able to keep the humidity between 35 and 40%. It has made a huge difference. Once I got the room and guitar stabilized at these numbers, I had the guitar properly set up by a luthier. It has made a big difference -- my guitar now only doinks out occasionally.

As others have mentioned: if you can't get optimal conditions, work on getting stable ones.

**rpguitar** · 10-03-2011, 12:32 PM

This thread seems to be mature enough without another "me too" reply, but I can also vouch for the room humidifier as an ideal solution.

I live in the Northeastern US where it's necessary to heat my music studio during about half the year (baseboard radiant heat). My guitars hang on the walls in this space, and I run a room humidifier set to 45%. It maintains that pretty well until the dead of winter, when it's running more or less constantly to keep it at 40%. So the only pain is that it needs to be refilled frequently (every couple of days).

I have more than 20 guitars in the room, about half acoustic - archtop, flattop, and flamenco (nylon). I have had no problems with dryness affecting my guitars over the past 6 years that the current studio space has existed.

**Patrick2** · 10-03-2011, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by rpguitar

This thread seems to be mature enough without another "me too" reply, but I can also vouch for the room humidifier as an ideal solution.

I live in the Northeastern US where it's necessary to heat my music studio during about half the year (baseboard radiant heat). My guitars hang on the walls in this space, and I run a room humidifier set to 45%. It maintains that pretty well until the dead of winter, when it's running more or less constantly to keep it at 40%. So the only pain is that it needs to be refilled frequently (every couple of days).

I have more than 20 guitars in the room, about half acoustic - archtop, flattop, and flamenco (nylon). I have had no problems with dryness affecting my guitars over the past 6 years that the current studio space has existed.

I live in the same state as you do and I have similar challenges. My difference is that I have forced warm air, not base board radiant. If your base board radiant is electric . . then that makes it a bad situation for you. But, if your base board radiant is circulating hot water . . that doesn't dry out the air too much. With my FWA system, I have a whole house humidifier . . . an April Air unit, mounted on my furnace. During very cold months when the furnace is constantly running and drying out the air . .. it even over powers the April Air unit. I have a large free standing humidifier in my guitar room. Between both humidifiers, I am able to maintain very consistent temp an RH levels. All of my arch tops are very happy

**stevedenver** · 10-03-2011, 03:24 PM

as a thought i live by
for those of us that do have swings in humidty,
and more than one insturment,
and more than one living being in the house

i am a great believer in storing an instrument in its case-and i try to do this without exception -
not as attractive or as convenient as a stand by far

but the case does act as an insulator re humidty and temp changes-the point being it slows the effect on the guitar -which is what others are emphasizing-and on the presumption that any given locale has more or less some average, along with changes, keeping an instrument in the case more or less makes that average even more so because the swings/ changes are less quickly conveyed to the wood (excluding stuff like direct sunlight, standing the case next to the heater, etc-ie simply in a normal room environment

so even when Colorado is mostly dry, then we get a rainy week, i play my instrument, while the humidty is high, and but it back in its relatively dry case-while the wood IS absorbing moisture while out, the absorbtion is slowed when its back in its case, and making these cahnges SLOW down has, in my experience, eliminated cracks (that along with guitars that have properly seasoned woods-which is increasingly rare -it can take two or more years to do this and its expensive to warehouse wood-it used to be the norm-sometimes woods were seasoned for a decade or more

and, im my experience the reason sometimes that tops seem to crack more often is that they under a great deal more mechanical strain, be it archtop or flat top, typically from the bridge, they are in fact the strongest part of the guitar body, other than the neck (hopefully) -that is why they are braced most heavily-the top wood itself may be the least dense compared to hardwood sides and back -but spruce is actually very strong -in fact a rather large airplane was constructed from it...

**MaxT** · 10-04-2011, 06:14 AM

Stevedenver,
Ha-ha, I gues you mean the monster that Howard Hughes built and Flew once?

**customxke** · 10-04-2011, 11:31 AM

I find that if I'm comfortable, so is my guitar.

**Patrick2** · 10-04-2011, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by customxke

I find that if I'm comfortable, so is my guitar.

That's not always the best philosophy as it realtes to a crafted instrument. Some people are not necessarily uncomfortable in 20% to 25% relative humidity. But, I can assure you that your stringed instruments will be uncomfortable. I've seen situations where people would develope nose bleeds, or dry itchy skin and also generate static electricity walking across a carpeted floor due to the dryness in their home. Yet, they never felt uncomfortable. A good digital measurement for temp and humidity is the best fail safe method of assuring consistency.

**customxke** · 10-04-2011, 03:37 PM

That's why I said "I" and not "you". I actually live in the same space as my workshop, and am not a stranger to wood.

**Patrick2** · 10-04-2011, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by customxke

That's why I said "I" and not "you". I actually live in the same space as my workshop, and am not a stranger to wood.

I realize that customxke. My reply to your quote was for the benefit of the OP and his original question. If he interpreted your response as a general rule, to all . . . and not just your own feelings . . . he might have let that info guide his care for his guitars.

**customxke** · 10-04-2011, 04:57 PM

Fair enough, and true enough. Cheers.

**jazzbow** · 10-04-2011, 06:50 PM

Just a quickie for those of us in the UK.

When you are not playing your guitar put it back in its case and not near your radiator or against an outside wall during the winter.
As far as humidity is concerned we have plenty of rain here and we are no more than 70 miles from the sea. But with all things being equal and you want to protect your guitar from the possibility of heat damage try using a dampit http://www.dampits.com/ they even come with a humidity indicator!

**rpguitar** · 10-04-2011, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by jazzbow

When you are not playing your guitar put it back in its case

Just a comment on this, and I don't mean to be funny... But if you have, say, more than 10 guitars, this advice just doesn't work. Unless you have a large dedicated space for your cases and don't mind futzing with them constantly, that is.

Since it's fairly easy to monitor and control the temp/humidity of a room, leaving guitars out in the room's air works very well. I hang my guitars on the wall, just like in a music store. Some might say it even looks like a music store, although I'm not really going for that.

**spiral** · 10-04-2011, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by rpguitar

Just a comment on this, and I don't mean to be funny... But if you have, say, more than 10 guitars, this advice just doesn't work.

I asked a luthier and my guitar teacher (who has been playing for 45 years) and they both said they leave their guitars out. I do the same and i am also more likely to play them all at different times.

**Patrick2** · 10-04-2011, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by rpguitar

Just a comment on this, and I don't mean to be funny... But if you have, say, more than 10 guitars, this advice just doesn't work. Unless you have a large dedicated space for your cases and don't mind futzing with them constantly, that is.

Since it's fairly easy to monitor and control the temp/humidity of a room, leaving guitars out in the room's air works very well. I hang my guitars on the wall, just like in a music store. Some might say it even looks like a music store, although I'm not really going for that.

Yeah . . . and there it is for collector/players. Part of the joy of collecting is to have all of your guitars out and on display for the visual gratification we collectors all seek. Also, when I do get to play.. .nothing pleases me more than to be able to instantly go from a Gibson L5, to a Heritage Golden Eagle, To a Guild Benedetto Johnny Smith, to a Heritage Super Eagle . . . or from an R9, to an R4, to a '61 Strat, to an ES 335 . . . and on and on and on. Try that with your guitars in cases. It easier, and safer for me to keep all of my instruments out in the open, in a climate controled and constantly monitored environment.