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What's the typical action used for jazz guitar? My string height is on the medium side currently and its a little hard for chording.
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09-22-2011 08:54 AM
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Well, as many things in life, it depends. I use .012-.052 flats, and I set the action where it doesn't buzz anywhere. You can set it a little bit lower or a little bit higher, depending on preference, sound desired, hand strenght, and if it's an acoustic or electric instrument (on electric it doesn't make sense to go as high as an acoustic instrument).
Are you trying to play barre chords or something? Because I can play barre chords with my strings (24,75" neck). If not, you could make a hybrid string set, maybe something like .012-.042, taking the top three strings from a .012 set and the bottom three from a .010 set.
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There are no standard rules. Set it up the way you like to play.
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Archtop.com does a nice job of setting up guitars for jazz players in my opinion (they also do excellent repair work, including fret work).
If you look at their site, you'll see string gauge and action height for each of the guitars they sell, plus some suggestions for you when setting your own.
Rock and roll changed perceptions as to how guitars should be set up and what a desirable response should be. In many ways, it is opposite of what was used to develop "the jazz sound" from the late 1930's through the 1950's.
Some generalities (that many will disagree with, but...)
1. 0.013 ~ 0.058 string sets are medium gauge, not heavy.
2. Sustain is desired in rock, but sudden attack and rapid decay are hallmarks of "the jazz sound."
3. Medium to heavy strings and a moderately high action contribute to that sudden attack and rapid decay, while minimizing sustain.
4. These heavier strings and higher actions can assist in providing some "bounce" to the fingers as a note is released making it easier to play jazz 8ths.
5. Archtops were designed for heavier strings and higher actions than slabs, and the money spent for an archtop is largely wasted if it is then set up like a slab used for rock.
When you peruse the archtop.com site, you'll see that most of the guitars are set up at 5/64" to 6/64" E-to-E. That's a good starting point. You may want them higher after trying it. Any lower and #5 (above) begins to apply.
But it's all just an opinion...(even though it's absolutely true and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong headed and probably stupid)
Last edited by cjm; 09-22-2011 at 09:59 AM.
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If chording becomes difficult to where you can't comfortably complete a tune, you've got the action too high. I wouldn't try to separate single line playing from chord playing.
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I heartily agree if the action is set to stratospheric Freddie Green heights.If chording becomes difficult to where you can't comfortably complete a tune, you've got the action too high. I wouldn't try to separate single line playing from chord playing.
But if the action is set close to 6/64ths, I would suggest (as a general statement) that it is mostly just a matter of becoming accustomed to an archtop set up to take advantage of the design. And that can take an investment in time and practice.
A piano and an electric organ are both keyboard instruments, but the action of a piano is necessarily heavier, and it takes some getting used to.
A Stratocaster -- set up for typical rock use -- is at least as different from an L5 set up for most jazz players as a Hammond B3 is from a Young Chang baby grand piano. And we shouldn't expect them to feel the same.Last edited by cjm; 09-22-2011 at 10:24 AM.
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On the acoustics I use for rhythm playing the action is around 3/16". On my amplified guitars the action is around 1/8". Both with 13-56 strings (phosphor bronze on the first, flatwounds on the latter).
The action is partly a function of the string gauge. The thinner the string, the higher the action needed to avoid buzz and slap.
Another factor is the neck relief. Many prefer an almost straight neck with a low action, while there is a tendency to have more relief with a high action to "equalize" the fretting resistance and "buzz threshold" all the way up the neck, but you can also find people preferring a straight neck with a high action. In the big band days, a high action with some relief was preferred by many rhythm guitarists.
Action and relief are very personal and ideosyncratic, and questions like yours use to end up with a lot of very different answers - some of which can sometimes approach religious beliefs.
Freddie Greens Gretsch Eldorado had an action around ½" with medium strings, which was most unusual. He used to tell people that "it took a while getting used to it" - and they sure did believe him after trying in vane to play his guitar. He never played bar chords, though, and he soloed very rarely. The only photo I have seen of him playing a bar chord is a Gretsch promotion photo with his by then new Gretsch guitar (he had an endorsement deal with Gretsch). On that photo the action is not as high as he used to have it - likely to not scare away customers who might have mistaken the high action for a neck set problem which would hardly promote sales.
As for stiff action, countless people learn to play double bass which has a much stiffer action than a guitar - and nobody frowns on that.
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I play with low action.
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I personally believe that the only correct answer to the OP's question;
"is jazz guitar played with a low or high action?" . . . is yes.
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I think John Abercrombie got arrested by the jazz police once, for having way too low an action.
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Too lazy to do the digging - curious what gauge Kurt Rosenwinkel uses, anybody know? I spotted him once with a plain G string!
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There's a story of a jazz great (can't remember the name or where I heard it) where he kept raising his action through his career. As soon as he was able to play where it was he would raise it a pinch. I don't remember who, or if the story is even true, but I do remember a video of him playing with a clear view of his fretboard, and it was indeed super high.
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This video clip?
Originally Posted by merritt stone
????????? - Travlin Light-Diane Schuur&Freddie Green - Muziek ??
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Yes. Jazz is USUALLY played with low or high action. Often, however, it is played with medium action. I hope this answers your question.
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Remember the guitar is only half the equation: heavy strings/nigh action + coat thrown over amp = jazz!
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That's the one! Originally Posted by oldane
Oh man just watching that again hurts. :lol:
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He used to use DA rounds 13-56 but I have heard he was using Thomastik rounds on his archtop. On a recent video with is Dangelico (his maing guitar) he said he used DA 12s. Originally Posted by JakeAcci
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I play 1/8" action as well and find it quite inspiring-
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What's the hardest thing you play? Bar chords? Set the action so the hardest thing is comfortable.
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Here is my theory: the goal is for the guitar to become invisible. You think/hear a musical idea in your mind, you express that idea. The less I have to fight a guitar, the closer I can get to that experience.
There is always a flip side.
First, if the guitar becomes too easy to play, it is at the edge of my fingers applying too much pressure and creating pitch problems.
Second, when I have to fight a little, my focus is different. That makes me put a little more effort into what I am playing, and slows me down.
Since I have a tendency to get excited and play fast, it is really useful for me to slow down and think more melodic.
I chose a guitar out of my small collection that allows for me to accomplish what my present focus is. Some fight me more then others.
However, when it comes to set up, I try and have a happy medium. High enough for my fingers to do blues, low enough to play fast.
Do not worry about anyone else, find what works best for you.
Everyones hands are different.
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Whatever action you play with you want to be in tune as you fret notes. Higher action will be more challenging IMHO.
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Sounds familiar! It is always some kinda compromise. Originally Posted by st.bede
One rule of thumb is that in the first gig of the tour the action is low and after some weeks on the tour the action is higher. Muscles get stronger.
In a smaller scale: home low, in the public performance higher. Because of adrenaline.
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