Amp advice for playing with a 20-piece band

**coolvinny** · 09-13-2011, 05:47 PM

Hi all,

So I'm going to start playing with a community jazz band next month. I spoke to the 'conductor' (a trumpet player) and she tells me it will probably be a 20 piece group with lots of brass/horns. There will be drums and electric bass too.

I'm not worried about feedback since I have a nice solid body guitar, but I'm worried about my amp. I have a Goodsell Super 7 amp which - yup, you guessed it... - puts out 7 watts of tube power. It has a 12" speaker.

Do you guys think this will be loud enough and, if not, could you offer me some suggestions? I have been lusting over the 60 watt Comins 1x12 jazz amp, though at $1,600 it's more than I want to pay. I have a brass instrument for which I can get probably $600 in trade-in value at the local (giant) music shop, so I'd appreciate non-boutique amp suggestions in hopes that they will carry that model and I can make a nice (partial) trade. I'd also like something not too big and heavy. The trunk of my car is pretty darn small and I hate lugging heavy stuff.

Thanks,
coolvinny

**kambor** · 09-13-2011, 06:39 PM

Zt lunchbox. More than enough for big band work, as the guitar is just a rhythm section instrument. If it's not a traditional kind of big band and you have guitar parts, maybe you can carry two of them.

**jorgemg1984** · 09-13-2011, 07:07 PM

Fender Jazzmaster Ultralight. Very Light, great fender sound, 250w, 12 speaker. But you have to find one used.

**fep** · 09-13-2011, 10:50 PM

Have you checked to see what the college may have?

It's not unusual for a college to have some guitar amps around. The nearest community college jazz band to me, the guitarist uses the schools fender twin which is already set up in the room. Now that's perfect.

**GodinFan** · 09-13-2011, 11:18 PM

I play in a community big band in Stratford, ON. I frequently use a ZT Lunchbox for rehearsals and gigs. If I want a fatter sound, I use a ZT Club.

Used the Lunchbox w/matching cab on Saturday for a tent gig at a local fair. Plenty of sound.

**coolvinny** · 09-14-2011, 02:12 AM

Thanks for the suggestions so far. There will not be a 'house amp' there (the rehearsals are not at a college) so I will have to bring my own amp.

The ZT Club looks perfect. I love that it's only 22 lbs. I used to have an amp with a small 6.5" speaker and I didn't find the sound satisfying enough, so I think I will pass on the ZT Lunchbox.

First though, I'll take my Goodsell Super 7 to the first rehearsal. Who knows - maybe it will be enough?! If not, then I'll pick up the ZT Club.

**oldane** · 09-14-2011, 04:11 AM

If it is a swing band and your role is to play 4-to-the-bar rhythm, an alternative may be to play the guitar acoustically and mike it if needed (through the PA or via an amp for acoustic instruments). After all, that's what Freddie Green did for more than 40 years with the Basie orchestra. Also remember, if you are plying rhythm, you are supposed to be more felt than heard. It so easy to blow up the whole rhythm section with an electric guitar playing "chunk-chunk-chunk-chunk" too loudly. An acoustic guitar has a more transparant and less massive sound. If you play an electric guitar, try turning down the bass somewhat and play with the flesh of your thumb instead of with a pick. It may make it sound more "acoustic" and less "in the face".

For rhythm work, play small chords - 2 or 3 notes. Leave extensions to the pianist and the band. 5ths can be omidded without problems. Roots can also often be omitted as they are taken care of by the bass and other band members. 3rds and 7ths are what is needed, the rest is icing on the cake - and may be too much.

**jorgemg1984** · 09-14-2011, 05:05 AM

The ZT is loud but doesn't sound good IMO.

**Dad3353** · 09-14-2011, 07:07 AM

Good afternoon, coolvinny...

I don't know this particular amp except from what I've seen on the web, but I would be pretty confident with the Goodsell 7w valve amp. I would be amazed if volume lacks, and the tone is, apparently, nice enough for you in general, so you're set, I think. If, depending on repertoire and your role in the orchestra, more is needed, an equivalent valve amp, around 30w or so, will fill any hall, but is overkill for comping chords.
Please let us know how things pan out...
Hope this helps...

**Tom Karol** · 09-14-2011, 07:17 AM

I have a Henriksen JazzAmp112 ($900, 32 pounds) that I use for Jazz with a semi-hollow. But I also have a ZT Club ($450, 22 pounds) that I use for Rock with a Tele. The Club/Tele is my backup Jazz rig as well; they sound great together, and the amp is light and loud. Funny thing: the Club/semi-hollow combination doesn't sound so great, and the Henriksen/Tele combination doesn't either.

**lpdeluxe** · 09-14-2011, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Fender Jazzmaster Ultralight. Very Light, great fender sound, 250w, 12 speaker. But you have to find one used.

This is the secret weapon, now discontinued. I'm very happy to have bought one a couple of years ago. It will do anything a non-heavy metal player can throw at it. It's my single "keeper" amp.

An alternate to the Lunchbox is the ZT Club 12. I found its tone much more appropriate for jazz, and it doesn't have the screechiness of the smaller speaker. In my experience, playing it with an amplified rock-style band, it was plenty loud, and it is voiced with an upper-mid emphasis that cuts through very well.

**max chill** · 09-14-2011, 09:16 AM

I can't believe nobody has mentioned a Roland Cube yet.

**jorgemg1984** · 09-14-2011, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by lpdeluxe

This is the secret weapon, now discontinued. I'm very happy to have bought one a couple of years ago. It will do anything a non-heavy metal player can throw at it. It's my single "keeper" amp.

An alternate to the Lunchbox is the ZT Club 12. I found its tone much more appropriate for jazz, and it doesn't have the screechiness of the smaller speaker. In my experience, playing it with an amplified rock-style band, it was plenty loud, and it is voiced with an upper-mid emphasis that cuts through very well.

Never understood why no one talks about this amp. Bought one used some months ago and it ended my search for GREAT tone in a loud and light package. It beats every other amp mentioned in this thread.

**mrblues** · 09-14-2011, 12:04 PM

Hi

I play in a big band, where i use the new ibanez wholetone jazz amp. ITs a 80 watt amp, has a 15" speaker, and has very clean sound at high volume, too. I had several amps before, the band has a Line 6 Flextone, but I dont like it. I also tested a MArshall 100w last weekend when we went to paly in a big band meeting, but didnt like it either. The Ibanez just knows EVERYTHING i need, and what the band needs. I would recommend buy that, and the best part is that its cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeap i bought my new one for 380 usd...

ps i forgot to say when i have to paly some "rocky" thing like Gordon Goodwin"s Jazz Police, i put a boss blues driver in front of it, and i got an old school tube sound from it.

**oldane** · 09-14-2011, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Never understood why no one talks about this amp. Bought one used some months ago and it ended my search for GREAT tone in a loud and light package. It beats every other amp mentioned in this thread.

The do get talked about now and then - very favorably - but they are discontinued and hard to find. I just checked the internet including Amazon and eBay and found only three up for sale in US, one NOS and two used (and they wouldn't ship to Europe

). Their owners must cling to them.

**jorgemg1984** · 09-14-2011, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by oldane

The do get talked about now and then - very favorably - but they are discontinued and hard to find. I just checked the internet including Amazon and eBay and found only three up for sale in US, one NOS and two used (and they wouldn't ship to Europe

). Their owners must cling to them.

There were two recently on sale on Ebay UK for fair prices. I bought mine in Spain Ebay - searched all over google and found this one in Madrid. A friend of mine lives there, bought it for me and took it with him when he came to Lisbon. Best gear I bought after my 60s Guild X-500 archtop. Its really an AMAZING amp, gets an excellent jazz tone but also great to play any other style really. You can carry it every hear if you get a bag with a shoulder pad for the cabinet as I did..

Everyone that tries mine here in Lisbon gets crazy to get one but they are indeed rare, Fender did not produce them for long and I guess almost everyone who has one wants to keep it. Actually there's a store here in Lisbon that has the head, if you want I can help you with that - although I didn't bought it because the cabinet is essential to get the best out of this amp despite what your read online.

**Gramps** · 09-14-2011, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

The ZT is loud but doesn't sound good IMO.

This sounds pretty good to me.

**jorgemg1984** · 09-14-2011, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Gramps

This sounds pretty good to me.

Guys like him make anything sound sweet. And I am almost sure the amp cant sound like that at big band volumes.

**oldane** · 09-14-2011, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Actually there's a store here in Lisbon that has the head, if you want I can help you with that - although I didn't bought it because the cabinet is essential to get the best out of this amp despite what your read online.

Thank you so much for your offer - very helpful indeed. But like you I'd like to have the head with the original cabinet, so I'll continue to keep my eyes open on what turns up.

**lpdeluxe** · 09-14-2011, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

, Fender did not produce them for long and I guess almost everyone who has one wants to keep it.

I'm sure that's right. By the way the lightweight speaker is 2 ohm, which makes it a challenge to find the right match -- you can hook the head up to an 8 or 4 ohm box, but you'll lose power and the convenience of the original system that allows the head to magnetically attach to the cabinet. That makes it worth your while to find the set.

At the time I got mine, I felt like it was a little pricey, but I did some horse trading and got the price down -- and now, I don't even remember what I traded in on it.

**jorgemg1984** · 09-14-2011, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by lpdeluxe

I'm sure that's right. By the way the lightweight speaker is 2 ohm, which makes it a challenge to find the right match -- you can hook the head up to an 8 or 4 ohm box, but you'll lose power and the convenience of the original system that allows the head to magnetically attach to the cabinet. That makes it worth your while to find the set.

At the time I got mine, I felt like it was a little pricey, but I did some horse trading and got the price down -- and now, I don't even remember what I traded in on it.

Got mine for 750€, new costed 1200€ I think. It was a good price for an amp that a lot of people want and that is no longer produced. Now that I have one I think it deserves the full retail price.

Yes, the original cabinet its essential because you can get all the power from the head and its also really light. At 8 ohms the volume difference is very audible even with an efficient and loud EV, but its still a loud amp. You can get that kind of cabinet from Lopo or Flite and put a Tornado Neo (very good match for the amp) but it wont be as loud as it can be with the original cabinet.

**jorgemg1984** · 09-14-2011, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by oldane

Thank you so much for your offer - very helpful indeed. But like you I'd like to have the head with the original cabinet, so I'll continue to keep my eyes open on what turns up.

Just be patient and you will find one. Some guys seem to hate the stock cabinet and sometimes you can find just the cabinet for sale. If you are able to score a cabinet we can talk about the head, I know the guy here wants 800€ for it. Where do you live?

**FrankBlack** · 09-14-2011, 05:47 PM

This talk of "which amp for a big band" got me wondering about a few things. I know the ZT Club is a very loud amp. I know that the loudness of an amp is no more useful than the top speed of a car, but it is a criteria that is useful and valuable to some, nonetheless. I, coincidentally, had a list of "SPL @ 1 Meter" values for a few amps I was considering, but I noticed that the Ibanez Wholetone did not offer an SPL value in their on-line documentation or on any other site that sold or discussed it (at least those that I found). So, I wrote to them and they forwarded me a graph with the value. I present it only because the amp was mentioned here as a possible solution and I hoped this extra bit of data might help with your ultimate decision. As raw volume is not enough reason to buy an amp, use the information as you will. But I thought the lack of that factoid was a glaring omission in the already crappy documentation.

Any engineers or those in-the-know who wish to comment on the graph would be welcome.

**oldane** · 09-15-2011, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Just be patient and you will find one. Some guys seem to hate the stock cabinet and sometimes you can find just the cabinet for sale. If you are able to score a cabinet we can talk about the head, I know the guy here wants 800€ for it. Where do you live?

I live in Denmark. It is tempting, but 800 Euro may be a little on the high side. The total cost of head, cabinet and shipping from Portugal would likely excede say a new Henriksen or a Polytone which I can have get in Denmark.

**jorgemg1984** · 09-15-2011, 04:33 AM

Originally Posted by oldane

I live in Denmark. It is tempting, but 800 Euro may be a little on the high side. The total cost of head, cabinet and shipping from Portugal would likely excede say a new Henriksen or a Polytone which I can have get in Denmark.

True! Keep looking on Ebay UK, you will get one!