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I am not very technical but changing that tube from 12AX7 to 12AY7 wont cut the power in half, it will just give you a little more clean headroom (i think...). To get the half power thing I think you have to turn off two power tubes. But there are people here that can explain this much better.
Last edited by jorgemg1984; 09-04-2011 at 06:26 AM.
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09-04-2011 05:45 AM
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Hi Tony
Jorge is right, the 12AY7 substitution will just give more headroom - 'tho it's probably a good idea anyway. I've just had a quick look at the HRD schematic, and it's different from most ''classic'' fender amps. In those classic amps, the tone control section is after the first preamp stage, but in the HRD it's after the second stage, as in a marshall amp. This isn't necessarily a bad thing for a ''hot rod'' sound, but it does mean that the controls will have much less overall effect than in a classic fender amp tone stack ( which has very wide adjustability)
. I'd suggest that you try the 12AY7, as it will make the best of the circuit you have, and won't necessarily cut the output power at all.
As you know, I think you might be happier if you decide to try a different amp; we can all drive ourselves mad trying to get something to work that just isn't built for the job, and looking at the HRD schematic, this amp seems designed primarily for distortion sounds, with its ''drive'' circuitry. Just my opinion; I've never owned one...........and I know it seems to work for some members here.
cheers
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You are both right, I'm sure. Where I was coming from was information given on the Eurotubes site regarding the JJ tubes. They say this:
"Fender HRD 6V6 OptionPrice: $62.00 Description: A pair of the JJ 6V6's to drop the output to about 30 watts along with three JJ ECC83S's with one balanced for the phase inverter in V3. These will reduce the harsh mids, the brittle highs and make the drive channel much more usable with less overall output".
Of course, when I actually ordered my replacement pre- and power-tubes, I was looking for a 'better' blues tone, so I ordered this:
"Fender HRD Gold Pin OptionPrice: $97.50 Description: Are you looking for the smoothest and richest tone possible? This kit uses a matched pair of the JJ 6L6GC's along with three gold pin ECC83S's with one of them balanced for the phase inverter in V3. A great way to go if you're after a Carlos or Eric Johnson type tone!"
I probably shot myself in the foot!
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Dunno about that, but putting 6v6s in a 6L6 amp mismatches the output impedance by about 80%, pushes up the B+ voltage due to reduced PT current draw and puts 470+volts on the plate of a 6V6 which even in the worst-case silverface CBS deluxes only got up to 440. Will it also reduce the output? Sure...
Gold Pin Option? why match a phase inverter valve when all phase inverters are intrinsically unbalanced anyway?
Feels like smoke & mirrors to me... or do I mean ''marketing".........Anyway at least you didn't risk damage to the amp with 6v6's. Good call!
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And tubes in my experience cant make that dramatic change in tone. They all sound different and they do change your tone (for some people a lot for others a little) but they wont turn your amp into a perfect sweet jazz amp because your stock circuit is not designed for that. You still have the same amp in the end you know? I did a lot of mods in my Blues Junior (some Bill M others mine) and you can certainly change the way the amp sounds but ultimately its a small 15w amp. And you have a big 4x10 60w no matter how much you mod it. Marketing is just too powerful these days, learned that the hard way sometimes.
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Not to self promote but I used an 87' ES-335 Studio through a Fender Hot Rod to record my first cd. That's it. Nothing else and I was very happy with it. I'm definitely not as tech savy as most people on this forum so I can't really give advice towards working the amp controls but I will say I think the amp and or guitar can only get you so far. A HUGE aspect will come from string choice, articulation and just how you overall play the instrument. You'd be amazed what kinds of sounds some people can get out of less than spectacular equipment.
The cd I played with this set up is this one if you wanted to check it out.
The Dave Kain Group | Citizen Kain | CD Baby
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Nice 335 tone dave! Agreed that most of it is about strings, articulation etc. The original poster, Tony, doesn't like the sound he gets from an HRD with a 335, and of course tone is very subjective and personal. I once recorded with a fender champ and an L4 and the tone was quite good IMO, so I agree that all sorts of unlikely gear can be made to work.
But perhaps the point is that most of us know pretty quickly whether an amp can get the tone we want, and if not, it's either tweak the amp somehow or try something else - the HRD isn't a ''classic'' jazz amp by any token, although that's not to deny that it works for some people, yourself included.
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The best thing about this particular thread AND thanks to all who have contributed - is that it becomes clearer and clearer that we can tweak what we have but not suddenly convert that something into something that it isn't!
I've spent over a year considering what to do with my equipment. I dropped out of the 'capitalist' market place 10 years ago so I can no longer just say 'what the hell, I'll buy it'! That's long gone.
My amp is GREAT. For someone else :-) Same for 80% of all the other equipment I own. Therefore you have all helped me realise that I should invest my money into unloading the surplus and then carefully reinvest in the right stuff for me. I'll even end up throwing in the blues-tubes for the eventual buyer!
I'm looking forward to a scaled down. lighter (!) and simplified future. And to now figuring out exactly which archtop and amp are going to suit me. Will then have to again confront that age-old question of tubes or not :-)
Thanks guys,
Cheers,
Tony
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Well said. Basically, wish I had money so I could experiment more:-(
Originally Posted by Franz 1997
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Its very important to either tweak your amp or find an amp you really like - I have finally 3 amps I really really like and I will sell the two amps I have used the most in the last few years. To me its really worth the process of finding the right gear for you.
But its also important to be able to get a decent sound from "regular" amps. You wont be playing "jazz amps" or fender amps modded to jazz all the time right? Maybe you wont have money or you have to play in a gig / reharsal / jam session with someone else`s amp and you must know how to get a good sound from it. Thats what the old cats did!
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Dave, the self-promo was well warranted! And the tone IS great. The music too!
As I've implied, I can great blues tone out of this guitar and amp. But in fairness, even when I got that, I was using the amp in it's sweetish spot with volume and master around 4-5 (couldn't go much higher without blowing the ear drums)! I am finally beginning to get a tone which will keep me going until I change the amp, but yes, it is important to get the best tone out of any amp, and I think that's why I've been a little frustrated with this particular model (not saying it's the same for all HRD - and I play a US model in France, running the amp via a very large transformer which certainly can't help).
But life's one long lesson right? If we're willing to learn anyway! I guess I've getting 'old' just not a 'cat' yet!
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