Best Tube Guitar Amp For Bebop

**63Bigsby** · 04-13-2011, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by Franz 1997

I like the deltalite 2512. It sounds rather like the old altec 417. I'd call it ''neutral but very open'' - no midrange honk. It's not even marketed as a guitar speaker but as a ''pro audio'' speaker, presumably because it's neutral-sounding. It lacks the metal-dome highs of the JBL, but I'm ok with that - it will still let a tele cut right through. And the 5lb weight, 250w rating and 100 db sensitivity doesn't hurt.
One consideration if you're considering a swap - it's quite deep, maybe 6" or so; deeper than many speakers.

Those Altecs are my favorite, although I prefer the 15" version 418.

**Klatu** · 04-13-2011, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by Tom Karol

As far as the Weber Cali 12 is (was) concerned, I guess I got a good one - mine was ceramic with a cloth dome by the way - but it's true that it didn't really sound all that much like a JBL.

I've also got a Weber Cali 12 in my Evans and am quite satisfied. I bought it because the stock speaker had blown, I'd heard good things about Weber speakers in general, and the Cali seemed to best fit my requirements by being an American voiced speaker with sufficient power handling. I also wanted to note that my Cali 12 hasn't produced any of the nasally tones that Jack's did.

**jzucker** · 04-13-2011, 09:51 AM

my concern with the deltalite is high freq content. The delta pro 12A has more high freq content than the delta lite but it's muted on the top end. Sounds good with an archtop but it's missing something if you need to play pop/funk. The neo deltalite has even less top end. It might be an archtop-only setup.

**Al_F** · 04-13-2011, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

headroom

Really ? I would have thought a Deluxe could stay clean enough with sufficient volume for jazz gig. Didn't Charlie Christian work with 5 watts or so ..?

**Franz 1997** · 04-13-2011, 12:28 PM

yes i think it's fair to say that the deltalite/ evans AH200 set up would be a jazz - oriented setup. Works well with a 335 or chambered as well as archtop, though, for that genre.

**Franz 1997** · 04-13-2011, 12:31 PM

I would have thought a Deluxe could stay clean enough with sufficient volume for jazz gig.
Not in my experience, unless a quiet duo maybe. Volume fine, headroom not.

**jzucker** · 04-13-2011, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by Al_F

Really ? I would have thought a Deluxe could stay clean enough with sufficient volume for jazz gig. Didn't Charlie Christian work with 5 watts or so ..?

charlie christian didn't play with saxophones, drums and keyboards which were amplified. A deluxe wouldn't cut it with an organ trio either. Adam rogers uses a dual showman (head version of a twin) *AND* a 100w SS amp when he does quartet or organ trio gigs.

**customxke** · 04-13-2011, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by tele jazz

what about a twin?

Plenty of headroom with a twin. Unless your playing Shea Stadium in the 1960s and there's no usable PA.

Posativek · 04-13-2011, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by customxke

Plenty of headroom with a twin. Unless your playing Shea Stadium in the 1960s and there's no usable PA.

I find fender amps, to be a bit treble happy,
and lacking in usable reverb, but thats just my opinion.
I know someone who had a 'polyton' Mini brute II, it just sounded awesome.
I havent found a tube amp that makes sufficiently good round treble at high volume yet except the Suhr Badger 30w combo. But I havent tried that many high end amps.
I just didnt wanna spend £1,500
All the fender amps ive tried sound unbalanced, but I haven tried many vintage ones.
The Vibrolux is pretty good apparently.
This is Rich from guitar college playing a Gibson L4 through a boss Gt8 for Eq and delay (just a little) and a vibrolux. Great smooth bop sound!! the Vibrolux sounds pretty good, in the video anyway.

So my little roland cube 60 does a reasonable polytone for now,,,
Would like to try a Henriksen or something. They just dont come around here very often, well, not at all!!

**cosmic gumbo** · 04-14-2011, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Al_F

Really ? I would have thought a Deluxe could stay clean enough with sufficient volume for jazz gig. Didn't Charlie Christian work with 5 watts or so ..?

My '68 DR has been playing clean in a big band for years, and the reissue has even more clean headroom. A big band is as loud as most electric jazz combos. It's all in how you play the guitar, and that is the beauty of the DR. Clean or dirty. If it gets louder than a big band, I'm not interested in playing at that volume.

**jzucker** · 04-14-2011, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

My '68 DR has been playing clean in a big band for years, and the reissue has even more clean headroom. A big band is as loud as most electric jazz combos. It's all in how you play the guitar, and that is the beauty of the DR. Clean or dirty. If it gets louder than a big band, I'm not interested in playing at that volume.

can't agree. I was just talking to Rick Stone recently. He had to get his deluxe modified with bigger transformers and 6L6 tubes to bump it up to 40 watts and it's still not loud enough for all his gigs. Paul Bollenback uses a vibrolux reverb (2x as loud as the deluxe) but said it's nowhere near loud enough for his organ trio gigs where he uses a Twin. Adam Rogers uses a Showman and a 100w solid state amp on his gigs. Mike Stern uses a 100w yamaha and a roland on his gigs. George Benson uses a hot rod deluxe and a polytone. Pat Martino and Jimmy Bruno use a 500 watt Clarus amp.

I guess they just don't know how to play the guitar.

**cosmic gumbo** · 04-14-2011, 01:48 PM

I guess my big band doesn't play in venues like these cats. I suppose when that happens, I'll have to drag along the JC120. I'm still not interested in loud stage volume, it's not neccesary, unless that's your thing.

**jzucker** · 04-14-2011, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

I guess my big band doesn't play in venues like these cats.

Depends on what kind of big band it is and whether it's amplified too. I played in the US Army Jazz Ambassadors. Even a Twin was barely loud enough for that band. ZT Lunchbox?!? Fuggedaboutit.

**Franz 1997** · 04-14-2011, 03:36 PM

Welcome to the internet - where every bloke types a mean guitar solo!

I thought this was a forum, not a competition.....

**jzucker** · 04-14-2011, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Franz 1997

Welcome to the internet - where every bloke types a mean guitar solo!

I thought this was a forum, not a competition.....

???

**cosmic gumbo** · 04-14-2011, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

I played in the US Army Jazz Ambassadors. Even a Twin was barely loud enough for that band.

Just thinking about that makes my ears start to ring.

**jzucker** · 04-14-2011, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

Just thinking about that makes my ears start to ring.

i agree but i hate being on a gig with the wrong amp or the wrong guitar. That's why I'll take my henriksen or evans even if a smaller amp would do if I'm not sure who the drummer or bassist is...

**hot ford coupe** · 04-14-2011, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

Depends on what kind of big band it is and whether it's amplified too. I played in the US Army Jazz Ambassadors. Even a Twin was barely loud enough for that band. ZT Lunchbox?!? Fuggedaboutit.

I know exactly what you mean. I was in the Air Force for 20 years and some of my patients were in the AF Band of the East. I sat in with them once on bass and my ears are still ringing. (We did 1 O'clock Jump. I did good too. I surprised the hell out of the band leader. He assumed I couldn't play. ) None of my amps could cut it in that situation and I even used a Twin. I'm lucky because the only places I play now are one nursing home and my synagogue. I could use a Pig Nose and it would be loud enough. I'm currently using an Ampeg J20. It's a fantastic amp for the job with headroom and volume to spare. I recommend it highly for smaller rooms and small combos.

**jeffstritt** · 04-14-2011, 06:10 PM

Here are a few questions to ask yourself...

1. Why a tube amp?

If you want clean headroom, you are going to 90% of the time be better off with a Polytone or an Evans, or something like that. One of the amps that I use quite a bit is a Fender Vibroverb which is a 40watt 1x15. It sounds great, but when you leave it on at playing volumes for 3 hours it will eventually start to distort. That's tubes for you!

2. Why does it have to be a 1x12?

Wes played a 1x15 Standel for quite a while and that worked out pretty good. Lots of cats have played Twins and JC-120s and sounded good. It really is pretty easy to put some casters on an amp if you like the sound of it. The other thing is, if you are playing a 50 watt amp, cranked up it is probably actually running around 60- 70 watts. Let's say you have a speaker in the amp rated at 80 watts, it is going to be pretty close to distorting. If you doubled that, not so much.

**jzucker** · 04-14-2011, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by jeffstritt

Here are a few questions to ask yourself...

1. Why a tube amp?

If you want clean headroom, you are going to 90% of the time be better off with a Polytone or an Evans, or something like that. One of the amps that I use quite a bit is a Fender Vibroverb which is a 40watt 1x15. It sounds great, but when you leave it on at playing volumes for 3 hours it will eventually start to distort. That's tubes for you!

Something's wrong with your amp. I've used tube amps for years and for tons of gigs and they've never done that unless the bias or filter caps are bad. Sounds like your bias circuit is drifting.

All the classic jazz recordings of yesteryear were done on tube amps. Though I have a clarus, evans, henriksen, markbass and raezer's edge cabs, my best jazz tone and...well...best any kind of tone is from my gries 35 which is essentially a vibroverb clone. The only drawback is that its 35 watts are a bit light when playing in a really loud band when you need to be able to play block chords at high volume.

**Franz 1997** · 04-15-2011, 02:32 PM

jzucker is right. In a tube amp which distorts only when it gets hot, it usually means that either a resistor, capacitor or both is changing its value (when hot), often in the bias circuit, which controls the tubes' distortion point in a class A/B amp like the vibroverb. It could also possibly be a transformer changing its characteristics when VERY hot ( v unlikely but possible), or some change in the power supply circuit diodes or filter caps, again when hot. This can also happen if a drain resistor in the bias circuit goes too high in value simply due to old age- the bias voltage gradually creeps up over a couple of hours. I have had this fault in a 60s amp.
I suggest you get a tech to put the amp on the bench and check all the voltages when running with a dummy load and an input signal, after a few hours. The fault should reveal itself....
Or you could turn it off every hour or so.....