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How do these 2 guitars stack up? I own a D'Angelico NYL-5FH (with mounted humbucker), and I have a chance to pick up a Golden Eagle with a mounted bucker for a great price... though I'd have to sell the DA to fund it. Is the Golden Eagle a better guitar?
I also have a D'Angelico NYSS that is my number 1 jazz guitar for live settings. I'm very intrigued by the Golden Eagle, though I won't get a chance to play it before purchasing. What are some thoughts? Thanks!
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04-07-2011 03:02 PM
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d'angelico is plywood. The NYSS is a great guitar though. The eagle nails the Wes/Benson tone.
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How much inconsistency is there with the Eagles? I won't be able to play this one before pulling the trigger, which is always concerning, though I've had great luck doing this on past deals. The dealer is reputable... but have you seen many Heritage Golden Dogs?
Originally Posted by jzucker
Also what is a "fair price" for a mint used Golden Eagle?
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there is some inconsistency. Make sure you have a trial period. Originally Posted by gravelrocks
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i agree. I had a golden eagle some years ago and the truss rod could not get the neck straight with 11s. Had a gutless pickup too, although less critical. Shame -great guitar otherwise. This kind of thing reinforces the wisdom of a trial arrangement if you can't see it before buying.
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No.
It might sound better!
Why go down that road again. Are you really unable to understand that there is no better, only different? Of course the tele isn't going to sound the same. You don't like the sound of a solid body for jazz. We get it. Move on, nothing to see here.
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The Korean made Exels are plywood. The New Yorker Vestax models are made with a press curved solid spruce top Originally Posted by jzucker
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How much consistency is there with the d'angelico's?
I own an Korean Incheon Exel, like it a lot in spite of the plywood top. Wondering how much an upgrade to one of the spruce top New Yorkers would bring. Normally beeing a L5 or LeGrand player i need the cheaper guitars for outdoor gigs where i don't not want expose the expensive guitars.
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The new yorker vestax models are plywood too. Pressed solid wood is a silly little game they play with the name. Do some google searches. You'll be shocked. It seems unethical to me...
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Exerpt from Carved vs pressed top [Archive] - Mandolin Cafe Forum Originally Posted by jzucker
A pressed top by definition is solid. Take a flat sheet of wood, put it in a two-part heated mold, close the top, sssssssssssss, there's your "arched" top.
If it's laminated, you just call it laminated. The plies are pressed together for gluing in a similar mold, but you never call it pressed.
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no that's incorrect. Marketing folks have stolen the term. See this discussion
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz/pressed$20solid|sort:date/rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz/RGlx2SBLeZY/RgXi48xkf8QJ
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Comparing a Vestax D'A to a Heritage Golden Eagle is like comparing veneered pressed wood storebought kitchen cabinets to custom made solid wood cabinets. It's apples and oranges. You can't even compare a "solid pressed top" to a solid carved top. The physics of the vibration patterns are different. Besides, the only reason I bought a Vestax D'A in the first place was because it looked like a D'A New Yorker. That's it.
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I found the following (at least to me) reasonable sounding explanation: Originally Posted by jzucker
Laminates are also called plywood guitars, as thin sheets of wood are laminated and pressed together. They can have a tendency to sound muddy or dull and thuddy if the laminates are crappy. A good laminate sounds tits though. The Peerless Manhattan I have sounds crystal clear and very loud. The Sadowsky laminates are killer. Some mid level laminates sound nice too (my D'Aspiranta for example) But the really cheap laminates sound like muck.
Pressed tops are just that. The wood is a flat piece of wood cut to thickness and heat pressed into the archtop form. Usually it is braced with a sound post like a cello. Pressed arch tops are not as strong as carved tops or laminates and invariably need a sound post to strengthen and brace the top and prevent deforming over time. The post also helps with feedback, but can lessen the volume of the acoustic sound. They sound sweet and clear but usually not quite as loud as a 'good' high end laminate or a carved top. They can sound a like a very expensive carved top amplified, for about half or a third the price, which of course, is the attraction.
A carved top is literally chiseled out of a large block of wood, which is why they are so expensive. The single piece of wood alone for the carved top may cost the manufacturer $500 and up. There were blocks of solid maple at a wood booth at the NAMM show that were marked at $450 .....and that was supposed to be wholesale.
Well made carved tops are generally the sweetest sounding guitars, however they can also sound trebly and shrill too. Just because the top is carved, I doesn't mean it magically has great tone. You want deep rich, tone that is clear and sweet. (at least I do). Most any really well made carved top with good woods 'should' have those qualities. But individual tastes vary and sometimes one person's sweetheart sound is not what the next guy likes. Some players prefer a good laminate to pressed or carved. They don't like the brightness of a carved top. But the really high end laminates can cost as much as a carved top anyway....
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check this thread. It seems that you are right. The main posting there that is interesting is from Nice Dan from UK who is an aria dealer. I believe they were making the d'angelico NY guitars.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz/%22solid$20pressed%22|sort:date/rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz/RGlx2SBLeZY/RgXi48xkf8QJ
Here is the quote from him:
I asked the question to Aria. When they say: solid top pressed arch:
they mean solid wood pressed into shape. I know an acoustic local
luthier who does this as well, by the way. He told me this was not an
easy process, but definitely easier, and so more economically viable
than carved.
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Keep in mind that a laminate top is also pressed into its arch shape.
As for the comparison between a Golden Eagle and a D'A copy from abroad . . . a good Golden Eagle is going to sound more consistent with the tone sought out by many jazzers as comparable to the Gibson L5 tone. In my opinion, a Golden Eagle is an upgrade from a D'A copy . . unless the D'A copy was made here in the US by, Triggs, Heritage, Arturo Valdez or Michael Lewis. Any of these American Luthier D'A copies will usually sound better than most Golden Eagles . .. but will definitely cost much more money and are extremely hard to come by.
If you have a chance to buy a Golden Eagle at a good price . . . I would recommend doing so. Consider, however, what the guitar is and what you want. Golden Eagles were made in many different configurations; i.e. floating pup with X bracing and a tap tuned top . . . floating pup with parallel bracing and not tap tuned . . single mounted neck position pup with X bracing . . . single mounted neck position pup with parallel bracing . . . dual mounted pups . . . etc. I own 3 of them. My personal favorite is the single mounted neck pup with X bracing.Last edited by Patrick2; 06-10-2011 at 03:49 PM.
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OOPS!! Forgot to comment on your "fair price" question. That's a very subjective and personal matter . . . that only you can answer. There are also many variables, as mentioned in my prior post. Here's how I always sum up the fairness of a deal on guitar buying and/or selling. I always consider "which do I want more . . . the money it will take to buy the guitar I want .. . or the guitar itself". If market value for a guitar is $2,000 . . but, the seller just will not sell that guitar for a penny under $3,000 . . and I REALLY just had to have the guitar . . . I would pay the $3,000 and consider it a fair deal . . because both me and the seller got what we wanted. On the other hand, if market value for a guitar was the same $2,000 and the seller offered it to me for $1,500 . . . but I reall did not like or want the guitar . . . I would pass on it.
The selling prices I have seen for used Golden eagles in near mint condition have ranged between $2200 and $3,400.
Regarding consistency . . . I have seen some near perfect ones and I have seen some that were not near perfect. But, I have never seen or played a dog. But, there are inconsistencies . . . just as there are with every other guitar maker of truly hand made guitars.Last edited by Patrick2; 06-10-2011 at 11:45 AM.
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the other factor is that the setup on the heritage guitars vary wildly. Out of 4 heritage archtops I recently bought, 3 needed refretting. My repairman who does George Benson's guitars turned down Heritages' warranty repair status because of these types of issues. The Korean and Chinese guitars have much better quality control IMO
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Ahaaa!! So that's why my Golden Eagle sounded so bright. It was one of those with the parallel bracing and non tap tuned top. I should have held out for one of the tuned, cross braced ones. Unfortunately, that was 20 years ago and I knew very little about archtop construction. In fact, I was told that there was really no such thing as tap tuning and that it was just a marketing gimmick. My Johnny Smith Rose was cross braced and tap tuned and it was a lot better sounding than the GE, i.e. more mellow and less bright. Heck, I wish I knew then what I know now. Originally Posted by Patrick2
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I took a listen and I'm impressed. The Kenny Burrell model sounded incredible as did the Golden Eagles, one with set in and one with floating pickups.
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