2010 Gibson L5 Wes Montgomery

**bananafist** · 02-13-2011, 02:30 PM

Hello,
First post on this forum, though I've browsed with interest and learnt some interesting things here.
I have the opportunity to acquire a Gibson Wes as above, and would appreciate your input/advice on the build quality/acoustic sound/and desirability or otherwise of the current version of this guitar. I'm old enough to remember the dip in quality in the late 60/70s, but am a bit out of touch with current Gibson build standards.
I have a 90s Gibson Country Gent which is ok, but not wonderful, and had a 2002 ES355 which was moved on, although it played well.
I would want to use the guitar acoustically, and realistically, with my arthritis, 12s are about the heaviest strings I'd manage.

Any input, thoughts, comments appreciated.

**kenbennett** · 02-13-2011, 03:25 PM

I still don't have the nerve to buy a guitar that I've never seen and touched, so I'm not much help.

You say you want to use the guitar acoustically. Do you mean for practice at home?

Judging from the look of it--mounted pickup and controls, TOM bridge--, I would say that the guitar is intended for amplification. I'm sure you would be able to hear it acoustically. But it might not sound like you want it too.

**NiAg** · 02-13-2011, 03:37 PM

Agreed with KB. The L5 Wes an electric guitar. Also, I would not at all suggest a sight-unseen and strings-unplucked buy on a modern Gibson. I luthiated through the nadir of the Norlin era, and things are (in my opinion) easily as spotty now as then.

For an acoustic archtop (x-braced, and possibly with a floating PU), there are several good possibilities out there. Does it really have to be a Gibson?

**Hammertone** · 02-13-2011, 03:50 PM

The L-5WES is a superb instrument, IMO.

A few things:
- it's built by the Custom Shop, which is completely separate from Gibson USA - essentially another company. Most Custom Shop instruments are top-quality in terms of fit, finish, materials, sound, playablity, etc. No connection to the stuff Gibson built in the 1970s. None. Different animal, IMO.

- It is made in tiny quantities - no more than a handful a year. It is a handbuilt guitar.

- it has a tune-o-matic bridge that can easily be swapped out for a wood bridge - that should never be a deal-breaker with any high-end archtop guitar.

- It is not an fully "acoustic archtop" because it has a humbucker cut into the top, some extra bracing to inhibit feedback, and top-mounted controls. All these things dampen acoustic response and volume, but it does have more acoustic volume than a typical L-5CES. I would not refer to it as an electric guitar either. How about electro-acoustic? So it CAN be played acoustically, but if your goal is to own an archtop specifically for acoustic playing, it's the wrong instrument.

**Dark Star** · 02-13-2011, 04:53 PM

I could buy a guitar sight-unseen & unplayed if the dealer was someone I knew & trusted. Besides, Gibson build quality is probably the best it has been since the late '50s. I wouldn't hesitate if it is something I wanted.

**kamlapati** · 02-13-2011, 04:56 PM

An older used L-5 would be better acoustically, and probably cheaper.

BTW, I really like the modern L-5 Wes model, I play my friend's often, but I agree that it is not optimized for acoustic playing.

**SamBooka** · 02-13-2011, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Star

I could buy a guitar sight-unseen & unplayed if the dealer was someone I knew & trusted. Besides, Gibson build quality is probably the best it has been since the late '50s. I wouldn't hesitate if it is something I wanted.

?? I can direct you to a couple of brand-new-still-on-the-wall (and will probably stay there) Gibson 175s that would disagree with the build quality statement.

**kenbennett** · 02-13-2011, 07:37 PM

I also would not worry about the craftsmanship. And I agree it's not strictly an electric guitar. It could be just what you want.

**mattymel** · 02-13-2011, 08:47 PM

Gibson Custom Shop guitars are ALL well made guitars. the quality of the instruments being put out by the CS is pretty much equal to the golden years, minus a few annoying components Gibson infamously slacks on. i would buy with confidence...the modern 175s... thats another story completely.

that being said, there are better quality archtops being made by Gibson these days. if you are looking for their BEST acoustic archtop, the Bozeman factory L7s are AWESOME guitars. personally i would rather have one of those, as they are amazing to play unplugged, and with a floating pickup installed, you have yourself an amazing archtop. and probably at half the cost. i have played a few from Joe at archtop.com and they have ALL been great. He has a nice one in now actually. the new Wes', though really nice when plugged in, are pretty dead sounding acoustically.

**SwingSwangSwung** · 02-13-2011, 09:04 PM

I've got a 2000 L-5 Wes. Its a great guitar, but its not for acoustic playing - sounds GREAT plugged in.

**NSJ** · 02-14-2011, 02:47 AM

Hope you got it used BIG drop in price. Unless it's 50s or 60s era, I tend to stay clear the hell away from Gibson, except for the 339-their ONLY decent priced and well made guitar--and even there, some QA issues emerge .

even a bigger drop in price between a newish L5 and a used Heritage Golden Eagle--the mother of all carved arch top bargains. I take the Golden Eagle 365/24/7 over an overpriced axe where you're essentially paying for the Headstock name.

**bananafist** · 02-14-2011, 06:07 AM

Thanks for the comments guys, really interesting and keep 'em coming.
I can try this L5, it is used, 2/3rds retail, but as new, so maybe I'll make the 200 mile round trip to do so.

I play at a local acoustic music club (no amps, pa,electrics whatever,)and would need to be able to use it there, but also want the electric option.

I first fell in love with the looks,etc, of the L5 in 1960 when I got my first Gibson catalogue, the proportions are so perfect. I've had quite a few guitars since then, but never an L5.

I have a Slaman North Sea which I got used, (my avatar) and love, but I guess I really need the extra acoustic 'poke' of a 1934 L5 reissue, or maybe the L7 reissue. I prefer to try guitars before buying, but neither of these seem to appear in the UK. I did try a friends Loar 700, but it didn't speak to me.

I do prefer a wider 1 3/4" nut and ebony f/board, so.........if anyone knows of a 1934 L5 reissue used.....

Well anticipation is supposed to be half of the pleasure!

**kenbennett** · 02-14-2011, 08:37 AM

When we were kids, back in the 60s, my cousin had an L5... Great guitar. A couple of years ago he got the urge for another one. Shopping around he found Heritage to be a much more reasonable deal.

**63Bigsby** · 02-14-2011, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by bananafist

I play at a local acoustic music club (no amps, pa,electrics whatever,)and would need to be able to use it there, but also want the electric option.

I do prefer a wider 1 3/4" nut and ebony f/board, so.........if anyone knows of a 1934 L5 reissue used.....

Here ya' go:
Gibson L5N 2004 L-5, L 5 - eBay (item 330527572375 end time Mar-07-11 14:21:33 PST)

If you're really looking to use the L5 stricty acoustically at a club setting then the Wes L5 won't do. It is not a loud guitar at all. Changing the TOM bridge to a wood one might help a bit but not enough, I'm afraid.

**spiral** · 02-14-2011, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by bananafist

Any input, thoughts, comments appreciated.

As others have said, the quality is probably great, a lot of the money is going into the name, and a set in pickup is not going to do you any favors for acoustic sound. The L7C is a good suggestion. I asked about it a few months ago and it got rave reviews from a few people.

**joe b** · 02-14-2011, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by bananafist

I play at a local acoustic music club (no amps, pa,electrics whatever,)and would need to be able to use it there, but also want the electric option.
...
I have a Slaman North Sea which I got used, (my avatar) and love, ...

Do you play solo at the club? If not, what other instruments are in your group?

Part of my usually tepid response to unamplified archtops is they just don't sound as good to me as a good flat top, at least for solo work - they strike me as relatively dull, dead, and unresonant - that can be a good thing in the right band setting, but not up there by yourself.

If volume is the issue: if a rosewood body / solid spruce top dreadnought is not loud enough, options for a louder flat top would include a jumbo body and maple instead of rosewood. Maybe go hog wild and get both, e.g., a Gibson J-200.

In any event, L-5 amplified is a show stopper, and it may be that the chance to get an L-5 at a good price is just too good to pass up, but I would be surprised if you find it is the best fit for an acoustic gig.

**bananafist** · 02-14-2011, 01:19 PM

Thanks for the further comments, it looks like the Wes is not the guitar for acoustic stuff, which I had suspected. I read somewhere that the tops on these are stiffer braced like the two pickup L5s to reduce feedback issues.
The acoustic club is usually solo, singing or with one other guitarist/singer. I mainly use my two 000 flat-tops to fingerpick there and they work well, especially the Collings.
I have an old Rex archtop from 1940s which is quite loud and brash, and cuts through, but doesn't do subtle or sweet! Maybe I'm expecting too much of this sort of guitar, but the sound Frank Vignola gets on the acoustic demo on Parkers site is what I envisaged trying for. The price of the Parkers is a bit of a no-no, though.
I saw the 1934 reissue L5 on the bay, but am hesitant to spend that amount without trying it first.
Carry on daydreaming I guess...............

**Jazzpunk** · 02-14-2011, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by SamBooka

?? I can direct you to a couple of brand-new-still-on-the-wall (and will probably stay there) Gibson 175s that would disagree with the build quality statement.

I own an 08 330L and a 2010 ES 335 Fat Neck. Both are outstanding instruments in the fit, finish and tone department.

I used to own an '08 ES 335 and an '09 ES 339. Again, both were excellent instruments.

Maybe I've just been lucky but I seriously doubt it.

**ejwhite09** · 02-14-2011, 06:46 PM

My luthier, essentially said the same that's been said, basically Custom Shop is only the way to go with Gibson, his words(a guy with 30 years experience)were bascially he'd buy a guitar from the Custom shop, blindfolded and bound.

God, I really want one of those 339's, anybody wanna trade for an 80 lp standard

**Drifter** · 02-15-2011, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by ejwhite09

My luthier, essentially said the same that's been said, basically Custom Shop is only the way to go with Gibson, his words(a guy with 30 years experience)were bascially he'd buy a guitar from the Custom shop, blindfolded and bound.

I don't doubt your luthiers experience with Gibson guitars but I think his view is too simple. I've heard and read some pretty bad stories about Custom Shop Gibsons, especially the cheaper ones like ES-137 or even the L-4 CES. It seems that the higher class guitars like the L-5 are beeing made by the master craftsmen, the cheaper ones by the trainees. The exception proves the rule I suppose.

On the other hand, I've had my share of experience with recent Gibson USA guitars. They've had minor issues, yes, but those were easily fixed and the guitars are tone monsters. There's no doubt that there's some sloppiness going on at Gibson USA but they still seem to know what's really important for tone & playability.

**ejwhite09** · 02-15-2011, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Drifter

I don't doubt your luthiers experience with Gibson guitars but I think his view is too simple. I've heard and read some pretty bad stories about Custom Shop Gibsons, especially the cheaper ones like ES-137 or even the L-4 CES. It seems that the higher class guitars like the L-5 are beeing made by the master craftsmen, the cheaper ones by the trainees. The exception proves the rule I suppose.

On the other hand, I've had my share of experience with recent Gibson USA guitars. They've had minor issues, yes, but those were easily fixed and the guitars are tone monsters. There's no doubt that there's some sloppiness going on at Gibson USA but they still seem to know what's really important for tone & playability.

Well its a generatlization, that when you think of 'Gibson quality' it mostly rests in the Custom shop these days. With the USA guitars having much more variance in quality. Les Pauls are getting notorious for intonnation issues. It does bother me that after spending over 2 grand, I have to do something like have saddles reset, bridge work done, sharp frets, etc. I think they (USA) have come out with some nice innovations. I like my LP's plug and play electronics and easily accesible electronics.
The more 'handmade' something is the more variance for sure. But I don't think he was making a statement on each individual instrument, but basically, if you have in mind 'Gibson quality' that's happening in the Custom shop. But this conversation came about when trying to get some work done on an 08 standard lp(the one that was supposed to be revolutionary with plek'd, etc)to get it to intonate.

Funny times behind that, long story short took it to the 'authorized warranty service' which Gibson in its wisdom choose 'Sam Ash' and after the manager stressed that if it only needed a setup I'd have to pay for it, they essentially did no work, did a setup and gave me ten pages of printed out paper on the tempered tuning scale, and then said, 'well you must have perfect pitch, and its never going to sound in tune.'

So, just in my experience, Gibson USA is making guitars of a quality that should sell at half or a two thirds the current price, and then stonewalling you on service.

I eventually called Gibson USA enough to get them to let me ship it in, sure enough they sent me a new one in the box, and this was a dream, even had a note that they apologized and 'hand picked' this one. And I admitt it was a beauty. Still is.

**NiAg** · 02-15-2011, 01:28 PM

I do not at all agree that the "custom shop" represents a major difference in consistent quality. They use the soft, goopy lacquer mix and regularly exhibit some remarkable lapses in workmanship and judgement.

I was working on an L4 CES thinking it was nice to see the lack of the "orange peel" finish I had just seen on an ES-135 - then I saw the deep gouges in the finish all around the sides of the binding where it is scraped after the color coats were shot. Really deep ugly scrapes on about 1/2 of the binding seam area. This would be an outrage on an Artcore.

It would be nice to see Gibson improve to average on this. It seems to be possibe. I find the workmanship to be consistently very good on the production Benedetto guitars - at prices that are a little below the "custom shop". So it seems that consistent high quality is not impossible in the US.

**ejwhite09** · 02-15-2011, 01:43 PM

Well yeah essentially thats the bottom line, you can get much better constructed guitars for much lower prices. But if you really must have a guitar with Gibson on the headstock, I'd start with the custom shop.
I want a 339, I don't know why its only custom shop, it seems more like a USA model, especially price point wise. But I've heard all kinds of stories about these(mostly good-most right out of the box). Of course there are lots of variables that go into this. What one guy calls 'great right out of the box.' Another guy may call 'totally unplayble.'
But I would have gladly dealt with a problem in the finish of the first Les Paul(and its finish was immaculate)if it had been a workable guitar. I was planning on it being my lifetime guitar so I wasn't worried about resale.
If I had it to do over again, I probably wouldn't get a Gibson, custom shop or otherwise, unless I found a shop with more than one model of the 339, and got to play 5 or 6 of them.

**Jazzpunk** · 02-15-2011, 05:41 PM

I went through a bunch of supposedly 'better than Gibson' semi hollows before scoring my current ES 335. None of the alternatives (Heritage, Guild, etc) were better built than my Gibson though some of them were certainly comparable (and at very attractive prices!).

YMMV

**ejwhite09** · 02-15-2011, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

I went through a bunch of supposedly 'better than Gibson' semi hollows before scoring my current ES 335. None of the alternatives (Heritage, Guild, etc) were better built than my Gibson though some of them were certainly comparable (and at very attractive prices!).

YMMV

I desperately want to believe in Gibson, I think they are the prettiest guitars on earth, and the history of the good music people have made with them is undeniable.
I understand the limits of mass production(and strengths) and visa versa with hand production.

Also, I think the 335 is probably Gibson's best guitar. I hear a lot less horror stories about 335's than anything else. The 335 is probably the best 'all around' guitar on the market.
It's too big for my personal tastes, which is why I'm dying to get my hands on a 339(or 336

), if I found the right one, I'd part with the LP.