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Yeah, that sounds about right. You may need to tweak it to your preferences or perhaps tweak it to what is perceived as GJ gitbox preferences (check djangobooks for that info in detail).
Don't worry about the nut too much. The zero fret is takin' care of business.
I didn't change anything out on mine. It's stock, though I added a Schatten so I could plug in.
Probably 4025. Mine is 2501. Don't think they use letters.
Congrats! Get djammin'!
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02-18-2011 03:13 AM
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Thanks!
Got it for a good price.
I was wondering about the neck angle (E strings rubbing on wood) and the low bridge and afterlength angle. Most of the guitars I have seen that use a separate tailpiece usually have taller bridges, like archtops. I guess it may be typical for a D500.
By the way, I like the wider neck but even though it has about the same string length as a Gibson or Epiphone type of guitars, it feels a lot shorter because of where the neck joins the body. I will have to get used to that.
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Saw your post on Djangobooks.forum too. The D500 is a fantastic guitar. The price might be a reason to think that something is wrong with it, but usually its not.
I have heard it against luthier guitars and expensive brands, it stands out for its loud, autoritative sound. What I read on your post are not issues, IMHO.
Enjoy your guitar, play with string brands, grab some wegen or jazzIII or bigStubby picks, shim the bridge up to your content, but overall develop the right hand technique for "la pompe". Guaranteed, that will keep u busy a good couple of years
(btw, high action is recommended for louder volume/ my current bridge has 1.5mm of shims under each leg - Django used coins, picks or even a matchbox)
Cheers!
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Originally Posted by eddue
- Regarding E string rubbing. I assume that the rubbing is at the headstock between nut and tuning peg. This is quite common with slotted headstock Selmer style guitars and no reason for concern. I was able to address it on my guitar as follows: When putting on new strings I have both E strings winding "inbound" from the little hole in the tuning peg towards the center of the headstock while all 4 other strings I have winding outwards towards the edge of the headstock. I don't know how to describe it better but after trying for a little while I now know the amount of windings I have to use for the E strings to have them clearing the headstock.
- Low Bridge Concern: Bridge height is significantly lower than on an archtop and measuring under 2 cm at the D-string is quite common for Selmer style guitars. Please measure and post. I wouldn't be worried about this however.
- Low string angle at bridge. Same as above, the top is made from thinner wood and the bracing is less sturdy so it won't take too much pressure any way. I'll take some photo's from my guitar tomorrow and post so that you can compare.
Last edited by frogeye; 02-18-2011 at 10:45 PM.
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Great idea about the tuning peg, More winding seems like a simple solution. Originally Posted by frogeye
I was thinking about raising the bridge, either shims or a taller bridge. I could probably adjuust the truss rod a bit but I prefer a steeper angle for the afterlength. I don't think it will add that much pressure to the top with low tension strings.
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Originally Posted by HotClubBrampton
Saw your post on Djangobooks.forum too. The D500 is a fantastic guitar. The price might be a reason to think that something is wrong with it, but usually its not.
I have heard it against luthier guitars and expensive brands, it stands out for its loud, autoritative sound. What I read on your post are not issues, IMHO.
Enjoy your guitar, play with string brands, grab some wegen or jazzIII or bigStubby picks, shim the bridge up to your content, but overall develop the right hand technique for "la pompe". Guaranteed, that will keep u busy a good couple of years
(btw, high action is recommended for louder volume/ my current bridge has 1.5mm of shims under each leg - Django used coins, picks or even a matchbox)
Cheers!
Good info here, thanks a lot!
I have my first batch of strings coming (Pyramid), they are sitting in the local FedEx dispatch and I should have them Monday. I have some sets here I could put on but they are not Gypsy Jazz strings so
I will just wait. Elderly Music has a great price for the GHS version, 5 sets for $20, but there was a problem with my order so I have to re-order them. Also will have to order the Savarez if I can't find them at some of the local music stores.
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I have a first year Saga D-500 that I bought new. I've had great luck with John Pearse and Dell Arte' 11s. No breakage problems. Reasonable life and consistency.
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Agree, I wasn't concerned about pressure either and merely describing the difference between archtop and selmer guitar bridge height. Also as it can never be mentioned too often, be very careful with tightening the truss rod. If it brakes you will look at a complete write off for the guitar Originally Posted by eddue
, 1/16th to max 1/8th of a turn at a time is what I remember.
In respect to raising the bridge I recommend that you work with shims first until you get to a height that you are comfortable with before spending money on a new bridge. Due to it's construction this guitar type is very receptive to the seasonal change in temperature and humidity and as a result the string height typically varies between late summer and late winter. Unless that you want swapping bridges between seasons you may want to get used to the idea of shimming. I use some very old oak veneer (not self-adhesive!!) that I cut into small strips and that works really well for shims. I leave in the Northeast US and with the hot, humid summer (wood will expand so bridge will raise) and the bone dry cold winter (wood shrinks and bridge lowers) I have had to add two shims (they are very thin...) by the time I get to late February.
My guitar is a Favino style guitar hat has a slightly larger body so this may be a bigger problem for my guitar than for the D-500. But still, keep this in mind as it may save you money. When I had originally bought my guitar the action was considerably high and the guitar was hardly playable for me. I had the bridge lowered to an acceptable height a few weeks after. Well that was in late August and by early January the strings were laying on the frets and I needed to shim the bridge back up again.
. Next time around I will have the guitar settle in my home and geographic location for a few months before I make alterations to the bridge. I will use shims at least during the first year of ownership or so before considering new bridges.
Good Luck with the guitar. I'm sure that you will like it. They require some "getting used to" in respect to playing but once you do you'll love the response and the sound.
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I have a lot of experience fitting upright bass bridges, different but same techniques apply. It's always better to have a bridge too high than raise one cut too low. Shims are good for a temporary fix or to find the right height but I prefer having a bridge fitted to the correct height.
A lot of double bassists have 2 or more bridges cut for their instrument. A winter and a summer bridge, or if they travel a lot different bridges to counter effects of different climates and humidity changes. Also, different bridges for different types/styles of playing, jazz or orchestra playing for instance. That might be the answer for Gypsy guitarist with similar problems, different bridges to adjust for climates changes or type of playing (high for more volume and low for faster picking).Last edited by eddue; 02-20-2011 at 11:11 PM.
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Just because I found this post: I actually prefer the Pyramid Gypsy strings over the D'Addario
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I tried a set of John Pearse gypsy strings that I liked better than the argies.
Never got around to trying some TI Plectrums. The guitar was a loan from a friend and I gave it back because tHe long scale was making my tendinitis flare up.
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Savarez Argentines now and forever (for me), but highly respected Canadian Luthier Shelley Park ships her new guitars with GHS Custom Shop Gypsy Loop End strings, and I know other folks in the GJ community that like them too.
If someone really prefers the sound of Phosphor Bronze on a Gypsy Jazz instrument, IMHO they bought the wrong guitar. Unfortunately there's no law against it, but in France if you put Flats on a GJ guitar you will go to prison.
From Shelley's site:
You will not hurt the guitar by using suitable guages (.10, .11) of bronze wound strings. However, the classic sound of these guitars is obtained with silver plated copper or steel strings. Part of this is historical: silver plated copper or steel was the current string technology in the earlier years of Jazz guitar, and it is integral to Django’s sound.
Tradition aside, most players using Maccaferri style guitars prefer the sound and response of silver plated copper or steel.
Bronze, Brass or other bell-related metals can produce some tonal depth and sustain not offered by silver plated copper strings. However, these qualities do not necessarily play to the strengths of a Maccaferri style guitar.
Based on experience and anecdotal evidence, Bronze wound and Silver plated Copper wound strings also seem to have different attack/decay envelopes. Silver plated Copper seems to have a slighter quicker response, which is ideal for these guitars and also the approach to playing in Gypsy Jazz.
Bronze strings are ideal for Martin style guitars, for example, which are constructed to optimize the qualities of that string material, which include booming bass and sustain. The sweeter tone and quick attack desired in a Maccaferri style guitar is not as achievable with bronze wound strings. Silver plated copper sacrifices some sustain, but offers the response and attack normally desired in a Maccaferri style guitar.
One should never discount the potential versatility of the Maccaferri design. They have more ‘sweet spots’ than they are given credit for. For example, they make excellent finger style instruments. But in any case, their tonal identity and responsiveness is generally considered to be best realized with lighter silver plated copper strings.Last edited by AlohaJoe; 09-03-2011 at 05:02 PM.
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Since this thread was up again I've discovered another brand not previously mentioned before. It's made here in the UK by a company called Picato. I haven't seen them to buy and try but was wondering whether anyone in the european mainland tried them yet? Originally Posted by AlohaJoe
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Alain Cola from Dell 'Arte once told me all gypsy strings are lousy (he may have used a stronger word), but Argentines are the least lousy. Every time I try a different brand, I go back to Argentines. I can get about 3 weeks out of a set, even with regular rehearsals and gigs.
Strings designed for flattops (bronze wound, etc.) are REALLY lousy for these guitars. As mentioned above, stick with gypsy strings for these guitars. They resond especially well to the larger gypsy type picks - 3.5mm and up
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Glad to see, there is so much interest in gypsy jazz around here.
Galli strings sound really good-
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I've been thinking about trying some Galli strings, too. THey have a softer core than Argentines - might be good for leads or amplified applications
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Galli's stayed on my guitar for about two days...completely unimpressed. Basses sounded dead, G string intonated poorly.
Went back to my Argentines and was much happier.
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A bad batch maybe? Or personal taste, I don't know. I also use their genius carbonio nylon strings which sound fantastic to me. I know Leo Eimers strings is guitars with Galli, and the antique models especially, have received extremely good feedback at django fest. Looks like both Nous'che and Stochelo use them too on their Eimers.
Last edited by Mr JDG13; 11-30-2012 at 03:59 PM.
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Perhaps....but I've never had a bad set of Argentines, so I went back.
I don't give strings a second chance usually...not enough time to practice in the first place!
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I got a new Gitane DG-300 modele John Jorgenson and tried Argentine 10's for one week then switched to 11's
My findings are:
With the 10's the sound is more "metallic"...or I would say that "gypsy resonance" comes out easier. Vibrato and bending is of course easier but also makes the instrument sound more "clumsy"...I liked it's sound tho...it rings more like a harpsichord on the thickest strings.
With the 11's the guitar becomes a bit duller, rings more like a "classical nylon" somehow due to the extra 2kg of tension, the tones become purer and you have to pick a bit harder to get that "gypsy resonance" and you can feel there is much more sound projection...playing soft chords sound more jazzy (as in a jazz electric guitar) and vibrato is more controlled and less prone to buzz. Big bends are still possible but a bit harder of course.
Right now, I prefer the 11's, the guitar sounds better to me, with more body overall.
Is so amazing the difference one gauge makes in an instrument.Last edited by Sacco; 10-01-2015 at 02:09 AM.
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Sacco, thanks for bringing this thread back from the dead. I have recently jumped back into the swing of things with my gypsy guitar and am once again experimenting with strings. For years, I played 10 gauge Argentine strings. Then came the urge to experiment, so I went ahead and installed Argentine 11s. I noticed that the extra tension caused more bow in the neck which led to higher action. That, plus the added overall tension, made the guitar uncomfortable to play for long stretches.
Since then, I installed a set of GHS Customs which are approximately the same as Argentine 10s, but with a 11 gauge high E. The set sounds great and has the added benefit of being the cheapest available silver plated gypsy string on the market. The next sets I intend to try are the Galli silver played Argentine copies and their Silk and Steel V027s.
I'd appreciate the input of anyone who has played both set of Galli and compared them to the Savarez Argentine 10s.
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Which set of Galli's did you play? I've read that their most popular set among pro players is the Silk and Steel V027, but I'm afraid to try them out because silk and steel strings are notorious for low tension and short life expectancy. I'd be more enthusiastic about their Argentine copies, but would like some feedback before placing the order. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Klatu, I don't remember, but gypsy jazz strings are NOT silk and steel, so it wasn't those.
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Here's one of the posts over at Djangobooks.com that indicates that Stochelo Rosenberg along with Jimmy and many other Dutch gypsy players use Galli silk and steel strings. Mind you, they aren't labeled "Silk and Steel", but they are strings that employ nylon in their composition. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
The following is a post by Michael Horowitz, proprietor of Djangobooks:
Stochelo, and many of the Dutch Gypsies use these:
I've also heard the Stochelo uses the D'Addario Silk and Steel, and even endorsed them at one point.
The GSL series is an updated version of the VO27s. It has a protective coating which makes them last longer:
All of these strings have silver plated copper windings.
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The Galli Silk and Steel are not Argentine style Gypsy jazz strings. While Stochelo and a few other players may use them, they are an exception to the norm. My friend Tony Green uses Bronze strings on his Dupont MD-50 (as did John Jorgensen for many years). The Bronze strings give a brighter sound than Gypsy jazz strings, the silk and steel are a bit warmer.
You can use whatever strings you want to, bearing in mind that too heavy a guage may damage the lightly built Gypsy guitar.
I have tried all of the Gallis and many other brands in both 10's and 11's (when available in two sizes). Argie 10's are what work on my two Dupont guitars.
YMMV
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