Non-Vintage Gibson L-7

[Jabberwocky]

...Rainbow sold an all-black Bozeman L-7C last year, I believe, with a few minor issues that had been remediated...

The 2006 L7C Ebony and Ivory. It was made for NAMM and came with a COA. It has an ebony fretboard with Ivoroid inlays. It made its way from Alto Music and ended up at Rainbow somehow. Someone who tried it at Alto Music posted that the neck was twisted and made it unplayable. Rainbow suggested that compression fretwork and a fret dressing would take out much of it and make it playable. I was agitating over getting it ($2795) but passed on it because I know that having to explain that when I decide to sell it on one day would have been a huge stretch.

[Bluedawg]

The 2006 L7C Ebony and Ivory. It was made for NAMM and came with a COA. It has an ebony fretboard with Ivoroid inlays. It made its way from Alto Music and ended up at Rainbow somehow. Someone who tried it at Alto Music posted that the neck was twisted and made it unplayable. Rainbow suggested that compression fretwork and fret dress would take out much of it and make it playable. I was agitating over getting it ($2795) but passed on it because I know that having to explain that when I decide to sell it on one day would have been a huge stretch.

I tried out that guitar at Rainbow and was disappointed .... not much volume imho ... my L5 WES is louder

It played well from what I remember. I don't remember a twist in the neck. The Rainbow repair guys have always impressed me so maybe they worked some magic on the neck.

[h1pst3r88]

Thank you to everyone, but huge thanks to you, Hammertone!

This is such a relief!!! The 'double hump' carve is exactly what I am seeing, and it's good to know it's what I should
be seeing.

RE: the Rainbow L-7C: that's not mine. Mine was made 1/26/2011, and has the pearloid inlays that do not match the ivory binding. I got is used in excellent condition but really the guitar and case look brand new.

This guitar reminds me so much of a lovely 30's Broman that was my first acoustic archtop -- right down to the chunky V-neck. Like the Broman, it has a beautiful delicate voice (see Joe D's youtube videos, grab a cognac, and dim the lights) but can really bark when going four-to-the-bar with big percussive rhythm playing.

Mine has ridiculously light round wounds on now that are kind of preventing me from really digging in. I am hoping with some heavier strings (any recommendations??), possibly flats, that I can get more oomph.

I'll take some pics and post them today -- thanks again, guys!

-Chris

[wintermoon]

'My guess is that the Super 400 also had it, but I just don't remember'

yes, I had a '39 that did.

[Hammertone]

...ridiculously light round wounds on now that are kind of preventing me from really digging in. I am hoping with some heavier strings (any recommendations??), possibly flats, that I can get more oomph. - Chris

I wouldn't go lighter than .12 - most of my archtops are strung with .12 or .13 sets.
My L-7C has no pickup and is strung with acoustic strings, but I have other guitars to cover that ground. If you really want to assess the ACOUSTIC qualities of the guitar, I'd start with:
-typical set of 80/20/bronze/whatever roundwound acoustic strings (if you ultimately want to use the guitar plugged in, these won't be the best for electric sound).
-then a set of Martin Monel ("Retro") roundwounds.
-then a set of pure nickel-wrap roundwounds.
-then a set of flatwounds.

D'Addario has a new set of "Nickel-Bronze" strings that appear promising for acoustic archtop but I haven't had the opportunity to try those yet.

- just my .02

[Archtop Guy]

Mine's the same way Chris,if not worse. They're fine guitars. Congratulations.

[h1pst3r88]

Here are some pics ;-)

[Greentone]

First: nice guitar!

Most of the X-braced guitars look flat across the bridge area like that. They are carved differently than tone bar braced tops...sound different, too.

As others have said, there appears to be nothing off vis-a-vis the neck angle/action/bridge height of your L7C. I concur with those who suggest that there is nothing wrong with the top.

Now, the tops on the Bozeman guitars _are_ somewhat thinly carved. Therefore, I also concur with the idea that stringing the instrument with .12-.50-ish strings is probably the way to go. Those old 30s X-braced instruments would have been strung up with .14s...but the guitars were built with those strings in mind. Today, luthiers have the expectation that guitarists are going to use some fairly slinky strings on instruments.

[WilliamScott]

The first L-7 Bozeman I looked at was just like the one pictured and I backed away from the sale thinking it was sinking. I then saw two more that looked exactly the same so I bought the first one that I wanted because it sounded so good. I think they are all shaped that way, at least all the ones I've seen (and I was looking closely for it). After 5 years I've had no problems with the guitar.

[KirkP]

I think the late 1930's x-braced top shape has much less clearance between the strings and the top at the end of the neck than you'd find on later parallel braced guitars. If you ever change pickups you'll need to check clearances carefully as some floating pickups may be too thick to be properly spaced from the strings.

[Greentone]

I think WilliamScott is correct in his assessment. The X-braced "7Cs" have that flat area under the bridge. It's part of X-bracing. Notice, however, that it gives the archtop guitar a tone that is just a bit closer to a flat top in sound. Instead of that midrange-y, penetrating sound that clatters out all the way to the back row of the auditorium (that's what tone bar guitars do best), you get more of a lap piano sound.

Mind you, some of the tone bar guitars can sound _outstanding_ as solo instruments--40s Gibson L-5 guitars come to mind, or the 20s 16" L-5 guitars designed by Lloyd Loar--but, in general, the X-braced 30s Gibsons, D'Angelicos, early Gibson Johnny Smiths, etc., all have a sweet tonal characteristic that is unbeatable and certainly memorable. They don't "cut" like an Epiphone or Stromberg or thick-topped vintage L-5, but they are seductive chord melody instruments.

[Greentone]

Oh, one way you can tell there is nothing wrong with the top of the guitar above is that the inner and outer edges of the f-holes line up. On guitars I have seen with sunken tops (e.g., some Gibson ES-175 guitars) the inner edges of the f-holes are noticeably more sunken than the outer edges--indicating that the central portion of the top is sinking under the downward force of the strings applied to the bridge against the kerfed braces.

Here is a Silvertone with an exaggerated sunken top. You can't even see the f-hole because the inner edge is so far below the outer edge.

[Dennis D]

I wouldn't go lighter than .12 - most of my archtops are strung with .12 or .13 sets.
My L-7C has no pickup and is strung with acoustic strings, but I have other guitars to cover that ground. If you really want to assess the ACOUSTIC qualities of the guitar, I'd start with:
-typical set of 80/20/bronze/whatever roundwound acoustic strings (if you ultimately want to use the guitar plugged in, these won't be the best for electric sound).
-then a set of Martin Monel ("Retro") roundwounds.
-then a set of pure nickel-wrap roundwounds.
-then a set of flatwounds.

D'Addario has a new set of "Nickel-Bronze" strings that appear promising for acoustic archtop but I haven't had the opportunity to try those yet.

- just my .02

This is helpful !!

OK, so I went backwards.....(( on my '52 L-7 C Acoustic - no pickup )).....
I started with Flats -- (Chromes ) 12/52's....pretty dead.....
Then I went to 13/56 Chromes - - still dead and now playability was worse, I thought....
So - - went to D'Ad. Half Rounds & back to 12/52...much better all around......did the steelwool trick as new and it worked !!

What would you do as a next try -- if any ?....I can't stand string noise, and I can live with the Half Rounds, but don't need that chirping from a standard RW..

Thanks !!!

[Greentone]

I have always liked D'Addario strings. However, I have converted after many, many years to using Thomastik-Infeld strings. I find that for my acoustic archtop I like the TI Bebop Nickel Round Wound strings. I use .12-.53 gauge. I find them to be slightly lower tension than the D'Addario set yet they sound great.

[Hammertone]

I have always liked D'Addario strings. However, I have converted after many, many years to using Thomastik-Infeld strings. I find that for my acoustic archtop I like the TI Bebop Nickel Round Wound strings. I use .12-.53 gauge. I find them to be slightly lower tension than the D'Addario set yet they sound great.

?? TI Bebop Nickel Round Wound String gauges:

.11P | .15P | .19P | .26W | .34W | .47W
.12P | .16P | .20P | .28W | .36W | .50W
.13P | .17P | .21W | .30W | .38W | .53W
.14P | .18P | .22W | .32W | .40W | .55W


TI Bebop Nickel Round Wounds come with the unwound strings tin or brass plated - any difference to you? I've never paid any attention to that distinction, and just use whatever is in the pack.

I use the .13 set for my archtops for the wound G. I find the tension fairly low because of the way TI makes its strings.

[Greentone]

Same here...whatever's in the pack.

[Archtop Guy]

I think WilliamScott is correct in his assessment. The X-braced "7Cs" have that flat area under the bridge. It's part of X-bracing. Notice, however, that it gives the archtop guitar a tone that is just a bit closer to a flat top in sound. Instead of that midrange-y, penetrating sound that clatters out all the way to the back row of the auditorium (that's what tone bar guitars do best), you get more of a lap piano sound.

Mind you, some of the tone bar guitars can sound _outstanding_ as solo instruments--40s Gibson L-5 guitars come to mind, or the 20s 16" L-5 guitars designed by Lloyd Loar--but, in general, the X-braced 30s Gibsons, D'Angelicos, early Gibson Johnny Smiths, etc., all have a sweet tonal characteristic that is unbeatable and certainly memorable. They don't "cut" like an Epiphone or Stromberg or thick-topped vintage L-5, but they are seductive chord melody instruments.

Greentone,You hit the nail on the head. When I bought Joes' L7c I wrote to him of how it fills that flat top need I'd been craving for. Sweetness is a perfect description of it's sound.

[Dennis D]

I have the same profile on my 30's L-7 and yes the top is ' settled'. And if you choose to call it ' sunken', go ahead. I hesitated even buying it for that reason. I had a 48 hour approval window, but I of course, proceeded to panic, and started making the arrangements to send it back.
But ok, I decided to at least give it a try and had my luthier go inside with his light and mirror and found the bracing was intact so I kept it.

I've said this here before - I have 2 L-7's - -the other is a '52. And anyone who wants to put a dip in my '52 and can promise me it'll sound like that '30's, is more than welcome !! Just tell me where to drop it off, and how long you think it'll take !!

Enjoy it !!