What's more important Guitar or Amp?

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 11-15-2010, 02:01 PM

I don't get the tools comment, either. Aren't tool important? No one is claiming a guitar plays itself.

**steve_carm** · 11-15-2010, 05:03 PM

unfortunately with my ability neither the amp or the guitar will make a difference. I sound like a hack despite the quality of my equipment. If i have crappy equipment at least no one expects me to play well.

**backliner** · 11-15-2010, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by steve_carm

...If i have crappy equipment at least no one expects me to play well.

Yes, this is an image building scheme I've indulged in (unsuccessfully) for a long time.

Y'know: a guy who pulls out a beater and plays lots of great stuff.

Now if I just had the great chops!

**mambosun** · 11-15-2010, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by steve_carm

unfortunately with my ability neither the amp or the guitar will make a difference. I sound like a hack despite the quality of my equipment. If i have crappy equipment at least no one expects me to play well.

Yes, good tools are important since a good tone would always inspire you in your playing.
An "un-tunable" guitar won't help in your technique progress, and in this matter I would select a good guitar as priority N°1.
But getting an overall good tone is very, very time consuming:
Your tone will get better as soon as your guitar technique improves.

**backliner** · 11-15-2010, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by mambosun

...Your tone will get better as soon as your guitar technique improves.

Ain't THAT the truth!

I once unloaded a perfectly good Barney Kessel Gibson because I thought being as it was laminated it sounded awful.

The guy I sold it to made it sing, then handed me the check for it!

**mambosun** · 11-15-2010, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by backliner

Ain't THAT the truth!

I once unloaded a perfectly good Barney Kessel Gibson because I thought being as it was laminated it sounded awful.

The guy I sold it to made it sing, then handed me the check for it!

Too bad!

**FWBO** · 11-17-2010, 10:35 AM

This is a tough one. I'd rather play through a strange amp than play a strange guitar but I have several guitars that I generally play through just the one good amp - even though I have other amps that are acceptable to many other jazz players.

Interestingly my belief is that it has never been easier to purchase a guitar of acceptable quality - the baseline of guitars is quite high. I think amps you have to pay more to get a good amp, but then again top guitar prices are way above top amp prices. I guess the difference is that you can set up an average guitar and it fits like a glove, can't tailor an amp in the same way. FWIW

So I voted for amp

**docbop** · 11-17-2010, 11:50 AM

My guess is those who vote amp are probably also Rock, traditional Blues, and Fusion players who want more than amplifying the sound of their instrument.

Thanks all for participating.

**Peter C** · 11-22-2010, 08:11 PM

Pat Martino, I believe, usually prefers a JC 120. If there isn't one available, oh, a Marshall half stack will do. Go figure. He always sounds like him. (Edit: he currently takes a Clarus head around with him and requests Mesa or Marshall CABS).

What is very important is that these days you can obtain a decent guitar, such as an Ibanez Artcore, AND an amp, such as the new Roland Cube 40, for not much more than half a grand (well, Euros).

**pierre richard** · 11-26-2010, 08:49 PM

it's not the instrument but the musician playing it....

time on the instrument...pierre

**gcb** · 12-03-2010, 11:21 PM

Guitar.

**Stackabones** · 12-10-2010, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by Archie

Yes, but I'm no MacGyver. What's that old saying: "a workman is only as good as his tools"?

"A workman never blames his tools."

**sdr** · 12-11-2010, 12:05 AM

A lot of you are saying that a better player with better technique will sound better on any guitar or amp than a poor player with poor technique. Well, duh. I'm sure that an even expert guitarist who can sound great with crappy equipment would rather play a quality instrument through a quality amp though.

As to the original question, ultimately, it's the guitar, but it's also relative to one's budget. If I had $300 to $400 to spend and I wanted something that could be played outside my bedroom, I'd split the budget close to 50/50, maybe favoring the amp a bit. Once I have a gig-worthy amp, I'd be looking for the best guitar I could possibly afford. Fortunately, you can get a high quality instrument these days without breaking the bank. Bottom line (I think I'm repeating someone else's statement here), you play the guitar, not the amp. Maybe a crappy guitar/great amp combo sounds better sound than a great guitar through crappy amp. Once you get to a decent amp though, it's the guitar.

**mambosun** · 12-11-2010, 04:48 AM

I'm sure that an even expert guitarist who can sound great with crappy equipment would rather play a quality instrument through a quality amp though.

Well yes and no; that reminds me an inteview of a famous orchestra conductor in a Hifi magazine, saying he currently used a cheasy plastic record player for listening to his own recordings (and any other records) and never considered buying a quality Hifi system. Since his focus was musical performance, it was far good enough for him.

Maybe a crappy guitar/great amp combo sounds better sound than a great guitar through crappy amp.

Again, I always experienced the contrary and noticed, even for a solid body guitar, the unplugged sound matters.

**Marto** · 12-11-2010, 07:31 AM

For me it goes hands, guitar and then amp in order of importance. But if any of the three are really bad it would be difficult to sound good.

**mambosun** · 12-11-2010, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by Marto

For me it goes hands, guitar and then amp in order of importance. But if any of the three are really bad it would be difficult to sound good.

.... unless you play air guitar

**timski** · 12-20-2010, 06:56 AM

I'm not saying the amp is more important than the guitar, but it doesn't matter HOW good your guitar is if you don't plug it into a decent amp.

On the other hand, if you play a fairly mediocre guitar, going from a crap amp to a good amp can definitely make your tone MUCH better (sorry for stating the obvious!)

**kenbennett** · 12-20-2010, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by timski

I'm not saying the amp is more important than the guitar, but it doesn't matter HOW good your guitar is if you don't plug it into a decent amp.

On the other hand, if you play a fairly mediocre guitar, going from a crap amp to a good amp can definitely make your tone MUCH better (sorry for stating the obvious!)

May be obvious, but proves nothing. Take a fairly mediocre amp, then compare a crap guitar to a good guitar.

No crap, I'd rather have a mediocre amp and a good guitar than a mediocre guitar and a good amp.

**Silentwiz** · 12-20-2010, 07:43 PM

I think that the Squier CV series are wonderful instruments for about $350. With flatwound strings, a pro setup and a pickup swap -- they become pro gig worthy -- for less than $500. Not sure if you can do much better than this for the price, but it's a modest investment.

I think the amp choices below $500 are a bit rougher. I played two shows with a ZT Lunchbox and it was acceptable for the circumstances, but I wouldn't have said it was ideal. The Rolands, etc, in that range seem to work out well too -- at the expense of weight, etc.

The broader consensus seems to be that the higher end amps really add a lot -- especially once you get into the $1k+ range.

Guitars are trickier. There are some very very expensive guitars out there, but it's challenging to say that they SOUND better than the cheapies. Further, in many cases, they may be tougher to PLAY -- which is really key. For my hands, those nutty Squiers have one heck of a neck... call me crazy.

**cjm** · 12-20-2010, 08:54 PM

I guess it depends on what is meant by "important."

I used to play a Gibson L5 through a variety of inexpensive and relatively low quality amps. It sounded okay, but not spectacular (and I am removing my poor technique from the equation).

In recent years, after ditching the L5 and taking my "capital gains" from its appreciation in value, I've been playing a couple of very inexpensive and, by comparison to the L5, much lower quality Asian built archtop guitars through Polytone mini-brute IIIs.

These combinations of cheap guitar and good amplifier may or may not sound as good as the Gibson eventually did when it was played through my Polytones, but they sound much better than the L5 did when it was played through all the different cheap amps I owned over the past 40 years.

A run of the mill used L5CES will set you back at least $6,000 U.S. today and you can pick up a lower tier brand new amp for less than $200 U.S. -- and you can get a sound that is -- okay. For $6200.

Or, you can spend $400 for an Asian built archtop, another $150 for a professional setup and fret dressing, and $350~$500 for a used amp like the aforementioned Polytone, and get a better sound for around $1000 U.S. -- or even a bit less. Buy both the guitar and an amp comparable to the mini-brute III (ithe "III" is out of production now, I believe) brand new, and you're still spending well under $2,000 U.S.

So...within reason...starting with guitars that have pickups and a setup both reasonably appropriate to jazz, I would opine the amplifier as being more important if the goal is to get a decent jazz sound within the realm of feasibility on a working class budget.

**timski** · 12-21-2010, 05:36 AM

CJM just hit the nail on head, for me at least (it's what I was trying to say earlier).

Crap guitar -> crap amp = crap sound
Amazing guitar -> crap amp = crap sound

It's not so much a case of one being more important than the other but, for the practical purposes of deciding what to buy and how much to spend on each item, fair consideration should be given to both.

**Tom Karol** · 12-21-2010, 09:26 AM

I'm still not willing to vote, but here's what works/worked (no longer have the Cube 60 - don't need it) for/to me:

1) Crafter SA (or SAT) + Cube 60: Excellent Jazz tone, <$1,000 US;
2) Crafter SEG480 (335 clone w/ 25.5" scale) + Henriksen JazzAmp112: Superb Jazz tone, <$2,000 US.
(All either guitar needed was $40 invested in fine-tuning the setup.)

That having been said, I still want a Collings Soco Deluxe, though I might be willing to 'settle' for a Sadowsky Semi-Hollow!

**MarkRhodes** · 12-21-2010, 09:36 AM

I have to say the guitar, if only because most days I don't plug into my amp (a Polytone MiniBrute 2) I like that amp and it carries its weight--amps matter--but you can play a guitar (esp an archtop) without an amp but you can't do much with an amp if nothing's plugged into it!

Archie · 12-21-2010, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by markerhodes

you can play a guitar (esp an archtop) without an amp but you can't do much with an amp if nothing's plugged into it!

Good point!

**cjm** · 12-21-2010, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by markerhodes

...you can play a guitar (esp an archtop) without an amp but you can't do much with an amp if nothing's plugged into it!

True as far as living room practice goes, but a bit tough to play bop in a club without an amp.

Count Basie eventually put a microphone in front of Freddie Green's guitar.