Thinline jazz guitar suggestions please

**timski** · 10-28-2010, 10:45 AM

Hello,
After a brief love affair with a Godin Kingpin, then coming across a few cool jazz geezas playing on 335s I got into playing jazz on my own 335.
After playing on a 3" depth guitar it has come as a revelation (mainly in terms of comfort and ease of playing), although it can never sound as jazzy as on a full size hollowbody.
I am reluctant to use my 335 as a full-time jazz guitar with heavy strings on as I use it a lot for other styles so am wondering if a thinline hollowbody might be the way forward.
Unfortunately there are few thinline hollowbodies around, especially since I want a singlecut guitar, and I want humbuckers. My ideal would be something like a Gibson ES350T/Byrdland/175T but I only have around £600 to spend.
My best bet so far looks like the Peerless Sunset but I am not a fan of gold hardware.
Any other suggestions for a thinline, hollowbody, singlecut, dual humbucker, non-gold hardware guitar costing around £600 (fender teles excluded)?
Now there's an easy one for you...

**mongrel** · 10-28-2010, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by timski

Hello,
After a brief love affair with a Godin Kingpin, then coming across a few cool jazz geezas playing on 335s I got into playing jazz on my own 335.
After playing on a 3" depth guitar it has come as a revelation (mainly in terms of comfort and ease of playing), although it can never sound as jazzy as on a full size hollowbody.
I am reluctant to use my 335 as a full-time jazz guitar with heavy strings on as I use it a lot for other styles so am wondering if a thinline hollowbody might be the way forward.
Unfortunately there are few thinline hollowbodies around, especially since I want a singlecut guitar, and I want humbuckers. My ideal would be something like a Gibson ES350T/Byrdland/175T but I only have around £600 to spend.
My best bet so far looks like the Peerless Sunset but I am not a fan of gold hardware.
Any other suggestions for a thinline, hollowbody, singlecut, dual humbucker, non-gold hardware guitar costing around £600 (fender teles excluded)?
Now there's an easy one for you...

Gibson (or Epiphone) ES 135. The Epi was a custom shop job with a very limited run and only came in a blueburst that is sort of hard to take for me but I still kick myself for not buying the one I saw a couple of years ago. A guy had brought his Broadway into the shop to audition amps and the salesman brought out the Epi 135 and it blew away the Broadway. I've been looking for an inexpensive Howard Roberts Fusion and a couple of years ago they could be had for under $1,000 USD but alas that day is over. Good luck.

**jazzuki** · 10-28-2010, 11:15 AM

Why not look at an Epi ES175-these are around you price.

**JohnW400** · 10-28-2010, 11:17 AM

Buy Ibanez Artcore AF105 Hollowbody Electric Guitar | Semi-Hollow and Hollow Body Electric Guitars | Musician's Friend

This one get's good reviews and is in your range. L600. Prices are U$D

**timski** · 10-28-2010, 11:19 AM

I used to own a Gibson ES135 - it's not a hollowbody, and I wasn't impressed with it at all, even after swapping the P100s for humbuckers.
Plus I am looking for a thinner body than on a 175.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 10-28-2010, 12:59 PM

Hmmm... an Eastmman El Rey fits your criteria (it's a hollow body without f-holes) except for the 600 pounds...

**docbop** · 10-28-2010, 01:38 PM

Have you checked out the new Sadowsky its basically his semi-hollow made as a hollow body. So all the size advantages of the thinline, but more of that hollow sound.

IMO the body doesn't matter if playing electrified. A guitar body is basically just an amplifier, the top is your sound/source of tone. That's why single pickup jazz boxes sound better than two PUPs because more of the top is still in tack. That why people use floater PUPs, don't cutup my tone producing top.

**NSJ** · 10-28-2010, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by docbop

Have you checked out the new Sadowsky its basically his semi-hollow made as a hollow body. So all the size advantages of the thinline, but more of that hollow sound.

IMO the body doesn't matter if playing electrified. A guitar body is basically just an amplifier, the top is your sound/source of tone. That's why single pickup jazz boxes sound better than two PUPs because more of the top is still in tack. That why people use floater PUPs, don't cutup my tone producing top.

Unfortunately, the Sadowsky semi is much more than 600 lbs, which is the price range specified.

I'd use the 335--it's a very versatile guitar.

**timski** · 10-28-2010, 02:56 PM

Thanks for all the replies so far.

I don't want to use the 335 as a dedicated jazzbox for a couple of reasons:
Firstly: to me, it still sounds too solidbodyish (let's face it, it is basically a solidbody guitar with a couple of hollow wings attached to it).
Secondly: I don't want to have to restring it every time I change between using it for jazz and non-jazz purposes (I currently have 11s on it which are fine for rock/blues/soul/funk/fusion, etc, but too bendy and weedy sounding for jazz IMO).

I should say that, superficial person that I am, appearance is quite important. I am not a serious jazzcat so am not too keen on the likes of full-size carved top guitars with floating pickups as they are just too, well, jazz.
I am certainly fond of the ES175 style guitar as, although they are an excellent guitar for jazz, they can also do other styles. I'd just like something less deep.

Maybe I am limiting my options too much by being so picky!

**timski** · 10-28-2010, 03:01 PM

Now that H525 is lovely, as are many of the other Heritages.
They're just way over budget!

**IanD** · 10-28-2010, 08:14 PM

Have you heard of the Gibson Howard Roberts Fusion 3? Similar in shape to a 175 but a thinner body and larger cutaway. Although its a semi-hollow the centre block is balsa which I think allows it to sound a bit more 'hollow' than the semis with a hardwood centre block. I have found mine to be a very versatile guitar and should be around your price range (maybe a little more) if you can find one used.

**goshawk** · 10-28-2010, 11:19 PM

You might be able to find an El Rey for under £600 if you're willing to buy used and do some shopping. Eastman also makes a separate thinline series if you prefer more traditional styling: the T145 is a 15" model, the T146 is 16". Again, out of your price range new, might be able to find one used.

**RAQ** · 10-29-2010, 05:15 AM

I liked the idea of an Emily Remler replica (her 330, not Emily) and very nearly bought an Epi Casino to modify with 57's; but then got the Peerless Renaissance instead (think the Songbird is an alternative with P90's). Maybe on the edge of your budget, but nice guitar. Very bling-bling, and 'gold' hardware, but you can always change the hardware over a period of time - some of the hardware needs changing in the longterm. Didn't like the tuners for a start. It looks to me like they used up lots of assorted Epi hardware (Casiono knobs, 'Joe Pass' tailpiece and Epi pups) but it sounds OK. Have you seen Matt Otten trying one out on YOutube?

#!

There's always the Casino itself of course - they seem to have various versions of that running at the moment.

**msr13** · 10-29-2010, 07:30 PM

I agree with BDLH-- For the budget identified, you can't beat one of the different Eastmans, at used prices. Great guitars. I had an El Rey for a while and miss it.

**woyvel** · 10-29-2010, 08:46 PM

Even more of a budget model would be the Ibanez AFS75 which is a thin version of the AF75. One of the reasons I chose it over an Epiphone Dot at the time was that it was a lot lighter. I use .012 flatwound strings and it's been better than it was with lighter round wounds. Nicer tone and stays in tune better.

**customxke** · 10-29-2010, 10:49 PM

In the current climate, your budget is not too far off from finding a vintage ES-125TC

**oldane** · 10-30-2010, 05:15 AM

I have an old Gibson 175, a Strat and three acoustic archtops (one of which has a floating pickup).

A few years ago I put together a rather "ideosyncratic" solidbody from Warmoth parts and a pickguard assembly from Vintage Vibe guitars. The basic style is Strat, because Warmoth has Strat shape bodies with "universal" pickup routing, so many different pickups can be used, and the modular concept of Strat type guitars is easy to work with. Behind the obvious, it's not so close to a strat. Body and neck are both solid mahagany. The neck dimensions are 25½" scale, 1 3/4" neck width at nut, 12" fretboard radius, smaller frets, "hardtail" through the body string anchoring. It has a single pickup in the neck position - a HCC from Vintage Vibe (Pete Biltoft), which is an aproximation to the Charlie Christian pickup (but any pickup could be installed). Two pots - tone and volume. I finished the body myself with Birchwood Caseys Gunstock Oil (easy to apply with a finger, looks great) and had Warmoth laquer the neck. It is NOT a hollowbody, and it doesn't quite have the woody sound of the Gibson 175. Nevertheless, strung up with 12-52 Chromes, its sound is surprisingly full and yet very clear. It has excellent sustain, and it differentiates the chord tones perfectly. Very few people will hear that it's not a hollowbody, if they don't see it. Due to the Strat body shape, it's very comfortable to hold both standing and sitting. The parts for it didn't cost more than a new Strat Highway One, and it was great fun assembling and setting up "my very own" guitar exactly to my specs. It sounds good, there's no feedback problems and its as rugged as guitars get, so it's a great workhorse instrument.

Now, I know you excluded Teles, and I believe my "Ideosyncaster" falls in the same group, but you really shouldn't. With a "jazz" setup solidbodies can be excellent jazz guitars. Even my Fender Strat sounds jazzy with the right strings on it. Just think of Ed Bickert, who always used a Tele.

**mangotango** · 10-31-2010, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by customxke

In the current climate, your budget is not too far off from finding a vintage ES-125TC

Not even close, this side of the pond. Seriously, you won't find anything like that for less than £1000 and probably £1200 is nearer the mark. Importing one from the US will add large amounts of duty at the point of entry.

**timski** · 10-31-2010, 08:29 AM

It turns out you can order a Peerless Sunset with nickel hardware so I might be going down that route.

I really like the Guild Starfire II mentioned earlier but they seem pretty rare.
The Ibanez AFS75 would have been tempting but for the nasty colours and unwanted Bigsby!
I also love the look of the Eastman ER-2, but way over budget unless a 2nd hand one comes up somewhere.

Alternatively the traditionalist in me may just go for the tried-and-tested ES175 copy if I can snag a decent 2nd hand 70s-90s Burny/Greco/Ibanez/Tokai example (and I'll just have to put up with the extra body depth!)

Thanks for all the suggestions, please keep them coming!

**customxke** · 10-31-2010, 12:36 PM

Epiphone Sorrento

**NeillonGuitar** · 10-31-2010, 05:08 PM

Perhaps consider some of those recent Epiphone Casino double cutaway instruments? They are fully hollow I think.
They remind me of the es330, used to great effect by Grant Green as mentioned earlier.
When all is considered, my Guild Starfire is probably the last time I will spend $3000 on a guitar. I am finding a gig environment too volatile for it, I am too scared it will get whacked by a mic stand. At least Epiphone keep the working muso in mind (ie close to broke)

NL

**RAQ** · 10-31-2010, 06:08 PM

I'm not too sure of my facts here without double-checking, but there was a brief production run of Dearmond 'Guilds' for a while was there not, although these are probably as difficult to find as the originals. I managed to come across a X155 which I still have and then, a couple of years later, came across a Dearmond Starfire, good price at a guitar fair - and passed it by. What a mistake. What a mistake. Peerless used to make Casinos for Epi didn't they, so I still think the Peerless or Epi make a good working-man's (ie affordable) 330. Good choice for the reasons Emily Remler said ... hollow-body tone in a more manageable form.

**backliner** · 10-31-2010, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by timski

...The Ibanez AFS75 would have been tempting but for the nasty colours and unwanted Bigsby...

I have a couple AF-75's I picked up used for stupid cheap that didn't come with whammie's. They're between thinline and full thick, are hollowbody (which I like for getting a bit of vibe in my chest before the notes come out the amp), and play as well as my Guild Savoy.

The electric components are not bad at all for taper, etc., and even though the stock humbuckers are not bad at all (ceramic though, I think), it was easy enough to drop an aftermarket pu in their neck slots. They wind up out of phase with the stock bridge pu's but I don't care: on a job I'm on the neck pu all night.

These things are ubiquitous and you could easily take the whammy off the really thin ones, which are the same but thinner, and put on a cheap AllParts $20 trapeze style. There's about a zillion different permutations of these out there. I've felt some with sharp fret edges, but neither of mine have that problem. I like having flatwounds at home and roundwounds on the one I gig with.

Yes, the dark red(ish) sunburst is not quite as nice as the nice flame blonde maple on my Guild, but BOTH of mine totalled less than 1/3 of my used bottom feeder Savoy Guild.

I'd take another look at these Ibanez hollowbodies. I dissed them at first, but they have really cranked out a lot of them and have gotten pretty good at it.

**goshawk** · 10-31-2010, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by RAQ

I'm not too sure of my facts here without double-checking, but there was a brief production run of Dearmond 'Guilds' for a while was there not, although these are probably as difficult to find as the originals.

Hmmm... that reminded me of something. Dan Torres (of Torres Engineering) wrote an article about how the Dearmond/Guild M-75 Bluesbird makes a great jazz guitar if you swap out the p'ups. I don't know about outside the US, but these guitars seems to sell for $300-$400 on eBay here. Here's an article he wrote about it:

NEW! - "All Jazzed up" article (by Dan Torres)