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Nice clips.
New answers
A: Laminated archtop
B El Ray
C 17 inch
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07-23-2026 03:20 PM
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The chord melody makes them sound more alike to my ears, but I am going to stick with my original answers as I learned long ago that changing your first answer in a test, more often than not, results in changing a correct answer to an incorrect answer.
The difference in sound is so negligible that the Benedetto premium price is only justifiable if it plays so much more easily that it is worth the higher price.
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Eastman guitars is on the line wanting to use your quote for their next ad campaign.
Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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No need - the proof of that is well established. Always switch - it doubles the probability of winning the car. Originally Posted by John A.
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In that case guitar # 2 is the El Ray. Or a goat … Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
No need - the proof of that is well established. Always switch - it doubles the probability of winning the car.
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It’s certainly not sheepish. Originally Posted by John A.
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Guitar three, whatever it is, sounds much nicer to me than the other two.
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I like the Benedetto best just because it's the most expensive.
I've really tried to refrain from commenting on this post. Especially to the replies the "the Benedetto isn't worth the extra money over the two Eastmans" type sentiment. This seems to be a constant undercurrent from punters who have never seen much less played a Benedetto guitar.
C'mon folks this is a small American company staffed by American craftsman building a small number of instruments compared to Eastman's output. I know American patriotism is somewhat unfashionable these days, however to see a American success story like Benedetto thrive means something to me.
I believe I am qualified to comment as I own both Eastman Pisano 880 and a 1990 Benedetto Cremona built by Bob. I play out regularly. The Eastman is a fine, mass produced instrument that was very well crafted. It's never let me down on hundreds of gigs. But if you can't understand why the Benedetto is easily worth the money and gets all the gigs you have never worked with one. Im not talking about sitting around in your front room cork sniffing or spending hours in your home studio.
The whole point to me is sharing joy to real humans in a live environment. I realize OP Never is a seasoned warrior and I'm not in any way talking him down. I know he recently acquired his Benedetto and betting he loves it other than the color.Last edited by SierraTango; 07-23-2026 at 09:00 PM.
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It's reveal time. There were 3 correct responses and one partially correct response out of 16. TBH, I strongly doubt that I would have picked them out consistently correctly if I didn't play them all regularly. The roster is
A: Eastman 810 CE7
B: Benedetto Bravo
C: Eastman El Rey
There's a lot of food for thought in this. Because of the factors I cited in post #39, I do not believe that the correct responses were just lucky guesses. These guitars do have their own sonic signatures, even though they share many sonic characteristics. The El Rey has a telltale sparkle in the highs when pushed even a little bit. I tried to keep my picking as even and light as I could, but the very light chime is still there in a few places. I could cut it out with EQ, but then the tone wouldn't be as nice as it is here. Even through my RE Bass 10 cab, the same character is evident, although less so even when pushed harder than this.
I expected the carved, solid wood, full depth 17" 810 Benedetto clone to sound significantly bigger than the 16x2.5" laminated Bravo - but it doesn't. Since they both sound beautiful, I'm just as in awe of Benedetto's ability to make a laminated 16 sound so good as I am of Eastman's ability to make and deliver such a wonderful, beautiful guitar for so much less money. I agree with those who find the 810 and the Bravo to be comparable in sound quality. It's amazing that a laminated thin 16 sounds as good as a carved solid 17. But the Eastman now lists for $4439, so it's not quite as big a bargain as it was when I bought it. It's also truly amazing that the El Rey gets such a big, beautiful tone out of a 14 x 1 1/2" body. Otto D'Ambrosio is one fabulous designer and luthier.
The other thing to ponder is whether a carved, solid Benedetto sounds better than the 810. I've never compared a truly high end guitar to an Eastman side by side in my hands. So I don't know how they compare. I'm assuming (and also hoping) that a flagship Benedetto (or any other top luthier's best guitars) is a better all around instrument than even the top of the Eastman line (which now lists for $6k). If it's not, there has to be a powerful set of other reasons to spend 3+ times the cost of an Eastman.
I do love the Bravo (despite its color...) and I'm very glad I bought it. But I believe I'm at least the 4th owner - ithe new has worn off! I would not have spent the cost of a new one if I could have gotten a Jazz Elite for so much less, even back when I was playing several gigs a month. The Bravo is made from the highest quality laminate, but the body wood doesn't hold a candle to that on any of my 3 Eastmans. It's beautifully made and feels fantastic in my hands. But the Eastmans ain't no slouches either. I love the Bravo's neck - it's full enough for my large hands, but it's also fast and smooth to play. The size and contours of the entire guitar are very comfortable, but it's very close to the Jazz Elite in these dimensions. There's no comparison between the woods on the Bravo and those on the Eastmans - Eastman used gorgeous woods, matched and related them perfectly, and bound the guitars in wood for a truly elegant look. A $20k Benedetto is just as elegant, but it's $17k more than the Jazz Elite cost me new a few years ago. Even the El Rey is absolutely beautiful in material, design, and constuction. A flagship Benedetto may be fancier, but it is not significantly better in this regard.
The one area in which Benedetto clearly excels is support. I've had to call them a few times about relatively minor things, both for the Bravo and for the B7 pickup I put in my AF207. I feel like a member of the family every time I call. Everybody is so nice, and they really do care that their customer base is happy and satisfied. Eastman has only responded to one of my many inquiries over seveal years - and I currently own 3 (810 & Jazz Elite 16 bought new, plus the El Rey bought used). I wanted to buy spare parts, had a question about the best place to put a neck strap button on the 810, etc.
So in summary, the Eastman 810CE7, the Benedetto Bravo 7, and the Eastman El Rey 1-7 are a lot closer in quality (however you define it) than their prices would suggest. I think there were so few accurate IDs because they're all so good, despite the fine ears and experience of all of you. The question of what you get for $7k in a Bravo that you don't get for half that price in an Eastman is not as easy to answer as I (and Benedetto) hoped and thought it would be. I do love the Bravo and would gladly buy another Benedetto if the need arose and I found myself with the guarantee of another 20 years of life. It does feel fantastic, play incredibly well, and sound truly wonderful. Like my Eastmans, it's a keeper that I'll cherish. But the Eastmans are not very far behind.
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I agree with all of the above. There is something special about the Benedetto, for all of the above reasons. It just feels right, it plays like a dream, I’m very impressed with the people behind it, and I’ve come to really love it. Originally Posted by SierraTango
Truth be told, I bought it out of necessity. l suddenly needed a guitar that was very high quality, very light, and usable on most gigs. It became available when I needed it from a friend I knew I could trust, and it’s a full sized archtop that’s comfortable for me to play through a 4 hour gig after herniating a lumbar disc last fall. Fortunately, it turned out to be perfect for me and much more of a treasure than I ever thought it would be.
The El Rey is certainly light enough. But it’s too small to play comfortably while sitting, and I really prefer to play at least a 16 and hold it in the classical position. Because of my back, I was getting stiff and uncomfortable sitting in the same position for even half an hour. So I wanted to be able to shift the guitar’s position and even stand for a few minutes while playing. The Bravo is so perfect for all this that I just sold the AF207 (a relative heavyweight) that I’d been gigging with for almost 30 years.
I’ve been doing my PT exercises religiously, and I’ll keep on doing them until the end because I never want to experience that pain again if I can avoid it. Fortunately, I’m now back to normal apart from being careful to avoid awkward bending / lifting / twisting movements and picking up heavy objects. I did a 4 hour gig every Friday night for the last 4 weeks with no distress of any kind. So Bella Nera and I are now a couple ‘til death do us part.
I understand why it’s hard for many to understand why anyone would spend twice as much for a guitar whose value-added qualities are largely intangible. It doesn’t sound dramatically better than my Eastmans - all of my guitars sound wonderful. But I don’t fault those who question and I don’t disagree with their reasoning if the intangibles add no value for them. Until I experienced it, I did not understand how one guitar could feel so special and make me feel better about my playing compared to another with similar physical performance. Now I do. I’m very glad I have it, even though I strongly doubt that I’ll buy a second one.
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I was the partial correct answer, as i only ventured a guess at which was the El Rey. And it was kind of a guess...the third sample sounded more different to my ears (it has less archtop "snap" right on the initial attack and seems to have a little more sustain) than the first two, which were more similar. I expected the El Rey to sound different, so i guessed it for the third one.
They all sound great and I'd be happy sounding like any one of them, any time. And nice playing too!
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I only mentioned I liked the sound of the first more, and that turns out to be the Eastman 810. This might well be because I have the 910, which is the same guitar dressed up smarter. I just recognised what I know. I did play a Benedetto briefly, but didn’t really bond with it, but certainly recognised its qualities.
My 910 cost me £2200. Importing a Benedetto would cost me five times that. That’s just the way it is here.
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I have never played an El Rey and I assumed that they would be brighter than a Benedetto.
I am retired from buying, but if I was still buying and selling, an El Rey would be on my watch list to check out. Thanks to this blindfold test, I now know that all Eastman guitars are not overly bright for my taste.
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I would have looked smarter if I had stuck with my first answer.
...but they are all pretty close.
I went from having them all right to having them all wrong.
At least Im consistent.
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I got it right and actually liked the Benedetto best of the three, but I thought the differences in sound were so minimal that if recorded differently I could imagine that changing.
To the question of whether the more expensive one is worth it … the experience of playing an instrument is different from the experience of listening to a recording of it. You can’t really judge value on that basis. That said, Eastman guitars are at such a high quality level that it’s tough to say that the more expensive brands are better. Subjectively preferable due to differences in tone and features/specs, but it’s a fair fight.
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That’s not really what happened. If you only want to flip 2, there’s a 50% chance that you’ll have 3 “wrong” responses despite correctly ID’ing at least one. It depends on which pair you swapped. Your ears are better than you’re giving them credit for being. Originally Posted by Sigmund451
With a 3 way trial like this, in which your first selection is removed from consideration and no longer a candidate once selected, getting the first one wrong leaves you with two alternatives one of which is actually the one not correctly identified first. So if you correctly ID the second, the third must be wrong. That’s part of the difficulty I was trying to explain in response to the idea that there was a simple 15% probability of getting them all correct just by randomly guessing.
There are no formulaic analyses to apply. This was not a random guessing exercise, and none of the characteristics we’re listening to & for is normally distributed in the “subjects”. There are no linear elements to put in order. And we’re all biased by our knowledge, experience, and beliefs. I know of no statistical test that can be easily applied to determine the “significance” of the observations. But I think it’s safe and reasonable to interpret the observation set to mean that these 3 guitars sound far more similar than different through a top quality, clean, and generally neutral amplifier & speaker. I would not be able to say with any reasonable certainty whether I was playing the 810 or the Bravo, if I listened to those tracks without knowing. The El Rey’s slight chime reveals it to me, but I’ve been playing it regularly and that’s the only “tell” I’ve noticed.
What I / we learned from this exercise is how similar these 3 guitars sound through the same amp with the same clean settings. Despite what seem like major differences in design, construction, materials, dimensions, market value etc, they sound amazingly like each other. I expected that a top quality relatively uncolored amp and excellent neutral speaker would let each guitar “sound more like itself”. So I expected to hear some clear distinctive but subtle differences. Instead, it seems to have revealed the closeness of their basic characters.
This makes me think that even minor amplifier colorations are very important because they could either augment or reduce minor sonic differences among generally similar guitars. For example, the slight brightness in some voices in a SBUS might make the El Rey’s tiny chime too bright. This might well explain why some of us love speakers that others find too shrill, too dull, etc. it could also explain why some hear differences in cables.
I have to agree that for sound alone, either Eastman (or my Jazz Elite, which I left out of this comparison but which also sounds similar if a bit thunkier) is every bit as capable as the Benedetto of delivering great performance on any gig. You can get similarly superb, professional quality sound, feel, reliability etc from guitars whose costs differ by a whole lot of money. That’s clearly not the sole determinant of our buying choices. If it were, there’d be no market for high end instruments. But for tone alone, there’s clearly a level above which price rise and performance get disconnected..
The interaction between guitar and amplifier is clearly more complex than I realized. This is fascinating!
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I do agree with the issue of diminishing returns and it holds true across most types of instruments. Once you pass a moderate price point you pay for things that are less evident to those that are not the player. Take a few more steps and you move further towards intangables.
That doesnt mean one should not buy an upper end instrument. It just means you should have an awareness of what you are paying for. Its hard to put a price tag on the experience when you play something and you connnect with it. Its easy to put a price tag on things you dont connect with
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I own a 2005 Benedetto 7 string and a few Eastman archtops ,i think they are comparable in both feel and sound.I believe you said in another post you were going to buy a car but when the Benedetto came available you bought that instead.Obviously it was your dream guitar and it should be your favorite.To me a great guitar is not just a tool but an extension of yourself that allows you to express yourself.My problem with Benedetto today is the prices they charge are as if Bob is building them,he's not and hasn't in 27 years.I think it's fantastic that a working musician today can get a quality archtop from Eastman without going into debt and when i say working musician i mean someone who derives their sole income from music not just a weekend warrior. Originally Posted by SierraTango
Eastman employs Americans here in California,a lot of the final assembly on archtops is done there.Eastman also has started building solid bodies here in the states,so if you buy an Eastman you are still helping American workers.
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Being the one who did not find paying extra for the Benedetto really is just me. Bob built great guitars but he no longer builds them and has not in many years. His own from the early and mid 1990's to me are the ones to own. The factory ones are fine but they charge a lot of cash for them and are they are built with tremendous QC. If one likes and finds inspiration in playing them along with sound, then be my guest. Our prize guitars are sort like a wonderful wife. I don't need to explain the depth and beauty because it is REAL I know it.
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I first encountered Eastman archtops over 25 years ago, when I went to see Ed Roman’s new guitar store in Las Vegas. He had several, and I was very impressed with them. But I was concerned that they were Chinese. I didn’t feel right buying a Chinese guitar when there were so many fine American archtops (eg American Archtops Originally Posted by nyc chaz
). I was also concerned that they’d fall apart in a few years and cost more to repair than they’d be worth. I already had a decent 7 string archtop because I ordered an AF207 when I read about their coming introduction in Guitar Player in early 1997. So I passed on an Eastman.
The AF was my only archtop from 1997 until 2020, when I decided I should have a second one so I could get the AF refretted at some point, which it turned out not to need. Marc Tappan adjusted the nut and did a stellar L/C/P job on the originals and made it play like new about 2 years later. But my earlier reluctance was tempered by a strong 15+ year history of solid performance by Eastman, so I bought an 810CE7 from Guitars ‘n Jazz and instantly fell in love.
I often wish I’d have bought a Benedetto or an American Archtop instead of the Ibanez. I knew that a FujiGen guitar was top quality, but it was Japanese and not MIUSA. Still, it was half the cost of even an AA (since my dealer was a long time friend and always gave me amazing prices). Dale Unger was an hour’s drive away. Victor Baker and John Zeidler were here. So I had great options, although I don’t know if Zeidler ever made a 7. We had a kid in college, one about to start, and both with big plans for graduate school. So I bit the bullet, and I learned to live with the only 7 string archtop I could comfortably afford.
As I always say, we grow old too soon and smart too late. I’m still sorry I didn’t support one of our own luthiers.
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To be honest ,i think you just confirmed what i said in the thread above.You couldn't afford the American prices so you bought guitars from Japan and China that were quality guitars and allowed you to gig and enjoy making music.I really don't see what there is to be sorry about.This is not directed at you,but i've found that people that tout buy American are usually hypocrites.You go to their home and it is filled with Chinese products like clothes,shoes electonics.It's like the guy in the White House who says buy American but his bibles,guitars,phones etc are all made in China.Talk to a lot of small business owners and they will tell you the only way they can stay in business is to import their products.It's a global economy,just because you buy foreign goods should not make you feel like you a pariah. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
I first encountered Eastman archtops over 25 years ago, when I went to see Ed Roman’s new guitar store in Las Vegas. He had several, and I was very impressed with them. But I was concerned that they were Chinese. I didn’t feel right buying a Chinese guitar when there were so many fine American archtops (eg American Archtops). I was also concerned that they’d fall apart in a few years and cost more to repair than they’d be worth. I already had a decent 7 string archtop because I ordered an AF207 when I read about their coming introduction in Guitar Player in early 1997. So I passed on an Eastman.
The AF was my only archtop from 1997 until 2020, when I decided I should have a second one so I could get the AF refretted at some point, which it turned out not to need. Marc Tappan adjusted the nut and did a stellar L/C/P job on the originals and made it play like new about 2 years later. But my earlier reluctance was tempered by a strong 15+ year history of solid performance by Eastman, so I bought an 810CE7 from Guitars ‘n Jazz and instantly fell in love.
I often wish I’d have bought a Benedetto or an American Archtop instead of the Ibanez. I knew that a FujiGen guitar was top quality, but it was Japanese and not MIUSA. Still, it was half the cost of even an AA (since my dealer was a long time friend and always gave me amazing prices). Dale Unger was an hour’s drive away. Victor Baker and John Zeidler were here. So I had great options, although I don’t know if Zeidler ever made a 7. We had a kid in college, one about to start, and both with big plans for graduate school. So I bit the bullet, and I learned to live with the only 7 string archtop I could comfortably afford.
As I always say, we grow old too soon and smart too late. I’m still sorry I didn’t support one of our own luthiers.
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I understand what you're saying, but I think you misunderstand or misinterpret my regret. I'm sorry that I didn't support a local artist and business person because these are our peers and friends. I feel like I (and we all) owe it to people like them to show in a meaningful way that we value them. Of course I have things that were made all over the world. Part of my thinking has always been that the only meaningful way to show American manufacturers that they're letting us down is to buy better goods from abroad. Buying an Eastman guitar is one way of telling Gibson, Fender et al that they're no longer providing the quality, value, and service that we want. Originally Posted by nyc chaz
Both Dale Unger and Bob Benedetto were a bit over an hour away from me north of Philadelphia back then. I met them at Philadelphia guitar shows over 25 years ago. They've always been very courteous and helpful when I've been in contact with them. I've known Victor Baker for many years as a great player and a fine luthier. John Zeidler was a wonderful Philadelphia luthier and a very nice man who sadly died of leukemia (IIRC) in his early '40s. A friend of mine still has Zeidler archtop #1. These are the kind of people I value and like.
What I regret is not having been willing and/or able to sacrifice something else to support them by buying one of their guitars. I made a life choice that was logical, practical, and reasonable for me at the time. But now I realize that I should have just sold the X500, ES165, and Gretsch archtops that I had when I switched to 7 strings, and and ordered a basic Benedetto, AA, or Baker 7 string. I had the ESP solid 7 and the Epi LP7 that I still have, and those would have been enough along with a good archtop 7. Instead, I ordered a custom 7 string Carvin hardtail and bought the AF207 (which was less expensive than a luthier built 7 - but it wasn't cheap). In total, I probably saved $2k or less over living with the 2 cheapo solids and having one good achtop. I could have made that up easily just by buying cheaper wine for a few years. My family would not have suffered.
FIne people are like your teeth. You only have to take care of the ones you want to keep around.
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As a recent owner of a 6 string El Ray 4, which I’ve hardly put down, it definitely is not bright. Rather treble is slightly rolled off, mids slightly forward with a very satisfying even surprising clarity and roundness to the bass before any amp adjustments. Beautiful tone and playability. Found out from Mark Campellone that Mr, Dambosio is not Italian but rather hails from Mark’s home state of Road Island at least he originally established himself as a top luthier there. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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The incredibly low rate of successful respondents means it is much more likely that the correct ones were random and not educated. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
You are always looking to confirm what you believe even in the face of pretty obvious statistical reality. That’s fine, it's your way of having fun and have at it but your tests always bring back the same results. If you amplify an archtop through a pickup, it will be near impossible to tell which type is which because there is no acoustic signature to listen to.
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Then why do my ES-175's sound different from my L-5's and sound VERY different from my Les Paul? Originally Posted by Archie
Furthermore, why do my ES-175's sound different from each other when they are equipped with the same pickup?
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Dampening a carved top for thunk I think
Today, 04:49 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos