In too deep, gear-wise

[Spook410]

I have seen guys put the piezo transducers of the K$K under the bridge (outside of the guitar) on an archtop.

Have a couple of archtops with K&K's inside under the bridge. Don't really care for the results. Maybe I should try outside directly under the bridge and experiment with a Tonedexter. Works pretty good on flat tops.

[rpjazzguitar]

I completely get that and agree. Your coping strategy is to actually cope, which is admirable. Mine is to say "screw this". Yours is probably better in the long run.

Mostly, I use three sounds which are patches in the ME70. Since there are 4 buttons, I have another, but I don't use it much. reverb, wetter, wettest, octave down added in.

I'm not sure, after all this time, what sound I actually want downstream of the ME70. In contrast, I am encyclopedic on what I don't want.

This is complicated by the fact, and I have convinced myself it is a fact, that the same exact sound can seem great to me at one time and like absolute crap an hour later.

Also, that I play several distinct styles of music, each with its own notion of guitar sounds.

I have had the phone-help-desk experience with gear. Change after change, each one seeming like an improvement, only to compare the result to where I began and reversing all the changes. Like getting back to the first person you spoke with in a bad phone-help experience.

So, as soon as I rejected guitar>amp in favor of more processing, the slippery slope was underfoot with the risk that things would eventually get complicated enough that I couldn't figure out what to fix, at a gig, in the dark, on the fly with a serious risk of losing my balance and falling off the stool.

I recently played the same gig, even many of the same tunes, at the same place. First time, I had the LJ and my powered speaker behind me and I thought I got the best tone of my life. Realistically, I may have been given caffeinated when I ordered decaf at lunch. Second gig I tried the same thing and got bitten by not having fully shut off some chorus I'd been trying some time back on a channel I didn't ordinarily use for guitar.

When we had the kitchen remodeled there were 1000 decisions. At the end I wished the contractor showed me one picture and said, "this is the kitchen we offer, yes or no?"

[Christian Miller]

For what it's worth, I think the K&K system sounds better than a piezo. There's one in my Eastman, and I use it for big band gigs. I'm also slowly gathering the courage to give the Eastman an snakebite and a DeArmond Rhythm Chief. So, the K&K is better than a piezo, but still not good.

You know, I just realized this acoustic archtop was supposed to free me from gear...

AFAIK the k&k is a piezo system.

Beyond some sort of contact mic like the AKG 411 or a lav mic like the AT pro 70 or the DPA, which tend to be more feedback prone, the main options are still - piezo or magnetic.

And with piezos it’s between having a body piezo, which tends to feedback more or a bridge piezo, which lacks depth and body sound etc but has better feedback rejection.

This series of k&k systems combine several piezo elements together for a more complex and nuanced sound. They sound good in YouTube videos. I have no direct experience with their response to feedback.

The more complex nature of installation made me less likely to try them. It’s a big investment if you don’t like the sound or if the guitar howls. Might be my loss…

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[AllanAllen]

I don’t have any more feedback issues than I had with my carved top w/ mounted humbucker.

I dunno, I’m an odd duck. I used to play a Joe Pass and Casino in loud garage rock bands. Maybe I learned good muting then and don’t remember. Feedback isn’t a problem for me.

[Stringswinger]

Have a couple of archtops with K&K's inside under the bridge. Don't really care for the results. Maybe I should try outside directly under the bridge and experiment with a Tonedexter. Works pretty good on flat tops.

I think the cats who place it on the outside do so in order to not have to glue the transducers to the underside of the top (which is kind of a permanent thing that some cats might not want to do with their high end archtops). They attach the end pin jack to the tailpiece (also in a non permanent way).

I have heard great things about the Tonedexters. I don't do enough acoustic guitar gigs to feel the need to go beyond my Baggs Para Acoustic DI, which gets me a useable sound with a piezo pickup.

[Cavalier]

Well to get K&Ks under the bridge of a archtop you need to craft some "fingers" for the long reach. The double sided tape can help you find the best place but it will never have the volume or tone of a glued installation. Short cuts tend to sound like short cuts.

People might try a listening dowel on the outside of a top to hear different location tones or a wired up pickup or stethoscope. There is no one best location but there are ballparks to start in. Fine tuning is part of adjusting for the individual instrument.
Violin soundposts are great training in finicky adjustments.

[John A.]

Mostly, I use three sounds which are patches in the ME70. Since there are 4 buttons, I have another, but I don't use it much. reverb, wetter, wettest, octave down added in.

I'm not sure, after all this time, what sound I actually want downstream of the ME70. In contrast, I am encyclopedic on what I don't want.

This is complicated by the fact, and I have convinced myself it is a fact, that the same exact sound can seem great to me at one time and like absolute crap an hour later.

Also, that I play several distinct styles of music, each with its own notion of guitar sounds.

I play straightahead small group jazz or (various configurations) and blues/R&B/orginals with a 4 piece band, so do I go for more than one sound and I do use effects, but I stick with pedals for the aforementioned reasons. I have tried using a Joyo American sound as a front end to my TC Helicon Voicesolo instead of an amp on a jazz gig, but I didn't like it (even though I did spend time beforehand working out a sound that I thought would work), and I went back to guitar->amp. What can I say? I just like guitar amps.

I have had the phone-help-desk experience with gear. Change after change, each one seeming like an improvement, only to compare the result to where I began and reversing all the changes. Like getting back to the first person you spoke with in a bad phone-help experience.

So, as soon as I rejected guitar>amp in favor of more processing, the slippery slope was underfoot with the risk that things would eventually get complicated enough that I couldn't figure out what to fix, at a gig, in the dark, on the fly with a serious risk of losing my balance and falling off the stool.

And still he persisted ...

I recently played the same gig, even many of the same tunes, at the same place. First time, I had the LJ and my powered speaker behind me and I thought I got the best tone of my life. Realistically, I may have been given caffeinated when I ordered decaf at lunch. Second gig I tried the same thing and got bitten by not having fully shut off some chorus I'd been trying some time back on a channel I didn't ordinarily use for guitar.

I find that too much caffeine makes the world sound more like a flanger than a chorus

When we had the kitchen remodeled there were 1000 decisions. At the end I wished the contractor showed me one picture and said, "this is the kitchen we offer, yes or no?"

Options paralysis is definitely a thing.

[AllanAllen]

When we had the kitchen remodeled there were 1000 decisions. At the end I wished the contractor showed me one picture and said, "this is the kitchen we offer, yes or no?"

Reminds me of this great Ted Talk. "I just want the jeans that used to be the only choice"

https://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schw...adox_of_choice

[Christian Miller]

I don’t have any more feedback issues than I had with my carved top w/ mounted humbucker.

I dunno, I’m an odd duck. I used to play a Joe Pass and Casino in loud garage rock bands. Maybe I learned good muting then and don’t remember. Feedback isn’t a problem for me.

I’m talking about uncontrollable microphonic feedback.

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[Christian Miller]

I have heard great things about the Tonedexters. I don't do enough acoustic guitar gigs to feel the need to go beyond my Baggs Para Acoustic DI, which gets me a useable sound with a piezo pickup.

I actually gigged it last night without an amp straight into the system and it’s the happiest I’ve been with the sound. Maybe I need to get away from using an amp with my acoustic.


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[Stringswinger]

I actually gigged it last night without an amp straight into the system and it’s the happiest I’ve been with the sound. Maybe I need to get away from using an amp with my acoustic.


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Do you have the first or second version?

[AllanAllen]

I’m talking about uncontrollable microphonic feedback.

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Well, the K&K system doesn't have a problem with whatever that is either.

[73Fender]

Simplicity? Recently, I've been using this one a lot for smaller gigs. 5E3 circuit, 1x12", 15 watts, in an oversized pine box. When I want to get fancy, I jumper the channels. Maybe I'll swap in a lighter speaker one of these days, but it's still pretty easy to carry as is. Not bad for an @70-year-old design.

I have a 5E3 build by Lil Dawg. In general, I like a little subtle reverb and overdrive. For the 5E3 I sometimes connect a Topanga Reverb pedal. It’s supposedly based on the old Fender spring reverb boxes.

[rpjazzguitar]

I just heard that a local pro carries a cooler with IPADs. He's got extras. It's in case one overheats on an outdoor gig. I've heard of that happening from multiple people.

I've also seen multiple issues with airdrop. Seems like, intermittently, it decides not to work.

Players trying to airdrop while using a page turn pedal may have trouble. If so, it can be because the Ipad has connected to the page turner by thinking it's a keyboard -- and will only allow one kb at a time.

And then, of course, there's the version management issue. Different arrangements played with different groups. Some members still on paper. Different players decide to edit or redo charts. Before long, getting everybody on the same version can be challenging. And, there's something about the Ipad that makes people want to stay on the Ipad even if they have the wrong chart and you offer the right one on paper. Strange.