Amp Recommendation

[Bach5G]

Playing my ES-175 through a TCE BAM200 in a big band setting this am.

in a nutshell, I’m going to need a bigger boat.

ideas? Not too expensive, not too heavy.

[BreckerFan]

Deluxe reverb, either the reissue or tonemaster, whichever suites your preferences.

[Bach5G]

Excellent suggestion. I hadn’t even considered Fender. Is there enough clean headroom? 22 watts.

A lot more money.

[MarkL]

Class D may be a good option for headroom, portability and cost. Other members are probably in a better position to comment on the best choices currently available.

I used an Acoustic Image/Clarus head (with a Raezer's Edge cab) with a big band for a few years. It handled the job beautifully and was very portable, but I wouldn't recommend Acoustic Image at this point. The company stopped manufacturing when its founder died a few years ago, and I understand from other threads in this forum that it no longer provides schematics and similar support to facilitate repairs on used units.

[rpjazzguitar]

I know what a TC Bam200 is, but what does the "ME" mean?

It has 200 rms watts into 4 ohm, 100 into 8 ohms. Seems like enough watts depending on the speaker.

If the piano isn't amplified it ought to be ample.

If the piano is amplified, I'm not as sure, but with the right cabinet I'd think it could be very loud.

[dconeill]

I see a webpage for a TC BAM200, but not for a TC ME BAM200. Are they different?

Why was the BAM200 (if that's what you used) insufficient? It's 200 watts. What speaker(s) did you use?

If 200 watts was not sufficient, why would a Deluxe Reverb, at 22 watts, be sufficient?

What does "I'm going to need a bigger boat" mean, if not that the BAM200 wasn't powerful enough?

And, as I usually ask, what do "not too expensive" and "not too heavy" mean? Quantify these for better recommendations.

[Bach5G]

The TCE Bam200 through an 8” Eminence Beta. TCE’s ratings should be taken with a grain of salt.

Not loud enough.

Criteria:

- less than 25 lbs
- less than $750 USD

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

The TCE Bam200 through an 8” Eminence Beta. TCE’s ratings should be taken with a grain of salt.

Not loud enough.

Criteria:

- less than 25 lbs
- less than $750 USD

It's hard to believe that your comping isn't coming through, since many of us have been fine with big bands using a 25W SBUS through a 6.5" Toob. You don't tell us what you're playing with your 175. Is it comping, leads, solos, or something else?

I've used a BAM200 for about 2 years now. With a RevSound 8" cab,a 10" RE, or a 10" Toob, it's held its own without difficulty in 7 and 8 piece groups with me, 2 or 3 saxes, amplified keyboard and electric bass, plus a loud drummer. I have no doubt that it makes a real 100W into 8 Ohms driven by a pickup with reasonably high output (like the EMG in my Les Paul). Output is determined by input signal voltage, so old school HBs won't push an amp as hard as higher output PUs. The stock HBs in most 175s are not high output, so you might be missing a few watts because of that. But a few watts will not materially affect your maximum usable SPL. My BAM hits its stride with any of my humbuckers (SD, Benedetto B7, Lace Alumitone, or KA).

An Eminence Beta 8A is a 95 dB speaker (at 1 meter, driven by 1 Watt), which is in the medium effciency range. Assuming its cabinet is well matched to it, it should be putting out a fair amount of sound from a BAM200. Using something like a 10" Ragin' Cajun (101 dB sensitivity) in a good cabinet, you'd get another 6 dB or so, which would be quite audible.

I also have a TC BQ500, which has at least twice the output power of the BAM and a good bit more clean headroom. They're only $179 new, so it's a great consideration if your BAM is working fine but you're not getting enough volume to suit you. A Quilter Tone Block 202 should be far more than enough for you, and IIRC your Beta 8 is rated to handle 200+ W. The TB202 is within your price range. I can also recommend the Quilter Overedrive 202, which has essentially the same clean channel as the TB202 plus an O/D channel that works really well - the OD202 is everything a Boogie Mk 1 or 2 is in a little 4 pound head. I have both of them, at least until I sell the OD202 curently posted in the For Sale forum because I no longer play big gigs like blues festivals and large venues.

[garybaldy]

I grew up in the days when 100w was 100w! I have the deafness and tinnitus to prove it.

[Luicaz72]

Big band is one of the few places where 200 watts suddenly doesn't feel like much.

[garybaldy]

Big band is one of the few places where 200 watts suddenly doesn't feel like much.

200 of "today's" watts

[Woody Sound]

There are of course many different volume levels of "big band," from mellow 40's dance music to high energy modern blasting. I use a Quilter Mach 2 12.

[andrew]

Change the speaker, not the amp.

[Woody Sound]

I have to agree with the OP. Most of these micro amps are rated at 4 ohms, and the sound is anemic with a single 8 ohm speaker. I recently bought the Trace Elliot Elf 200W head (pretty much the same idea as the BAM200) and it sounded very weak. I sent it back and bought a MarkBass 500W 58R (4 ohm) head, and the difference is amazing. Now the speaker is pulling a true 200+ watts.

[Gitterbug]

My clan is using the BAM200 for many purposes: straight amp for guitar, bass and keyboard, power amp for mini-PA and behind various preamp pedals and modelers. What's the OP's Gain setting? On this amp, Gain is not for overdrive but to accommodate for passive and active bass PU's with different output. A guitarist has discovered that if you max out Gain and then bring in Master from zero to taste, the amp compresses like a tube amp. Let me assure, a Toob 12F full-range cab can get hellishly loud when fed from one of my son's modelers (Kemper, Friedman, Valeton) through the BAM.

As Woody Sound points out, big bands can be anything. For the more traditional variety, where the quitar's main role is four-to-the-bar comping, a cab with broad projection will be appreciated by bandmates. This means open-back rather than closed/ported. Many clients of mine have taken my advice and placed the cab facing upwards, near the center line of the band. A second cab facing the audience would come in for solo work. A simple on-off footswitch shoud do.

(My own big band experience is limited to some rehearsals and jazz camp ensembles. Yet, the multi-horn swing outfits I've played with are kinda mini big bands with just one member in each section. Around 2010, I was offered the seat in one of Helsinki's several big bands, but multiple surgery (thigh muscle, rotary cuff, back) forced me to pass then, and the opportunity never returned.)

[alltunes]

Deluxe reverb, either the reissue or tonemaster, whichever suites your preferences.

If you can swing it Victoria’s Club Deluxe… which is basically a Fender deluxe circuit, but without the tremolo channel or bright cap..has a handy 1/2 power switch too

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I recently bought the Trace Elliot Elf 200W head (pretty much the same idea as the BAM200) and it sounded very weak. I sent it back.

FWIW, the Elf is an extreme example of a typical bass amp, in that it compresses more and more as volume is increased. So it maintains bottom end punch at the expense of peak power and headroom. I bought one early on and loved it for solo work. I can’t say that it lacked power, but it didn’t have that effortless feeling in high volume band settings (probably because of the inherent compression). I sold it only because I’d managed to acquire too many small amps while learning about and experiencing them as they evolved.

As someone pointed out in a recent thread, I like to base my opinions and decisions on knowledge and experience rather than on others’ reviews and reports. So for me, there was only one way to learn about class D. I bought a few of the best ones from value to flagship, flipping all but the obvious keepers that met all my needs.

[bluejaybill]

I grew up in the days when 100w was 100w! I have the deafness and tinnitus to prove it.

Same here.

I still have a 38 watt JTM45 from the '60's, and it is beyond loud, more than I will ever need again. Even a (tube) BF Deluxe Reverb on 3.5 is extremely loud to me now.

I mostly use a Little Jazz turned up a third of the way, or a Princeton size tube amp.

I really don't understand how a 200 watt rating, even SS, could not be loud enough.

[Woody Sound]

FWIW, the Elf is an extreme example of a typical bass amp, in that it compresses more and more as volume is increased. So it maintains bottom end punch at the expense of peak power and headroom. I bought one early on and loved it for solo work. I can’t say that it lacked power, but it didn’t have that effortless feeling in high volume band settings (probably because of the inherent compression). I sold it only because I’d managed to acquire too many small amps while learning about and experiencing them as they evolved.

As someone pointed out in a recent thread, I like to base my opinions and decisions on knowledge and experience rather than on others’ reviews and reports. So for me, there was only one way to learn about class D. I bought a few of the best ones from value to flagship, flipping all but the obvious keepers that met all my needs.

Well I bought the Elf and the matching 1x10 neo cab to have a super light portable system for my Fender Bass VI. Not nearly enough power. But now with the MarkBass head, the very same cab has a nice tight boom. Doubling the power made all the difference in the world. Same speaker.

[Jim Soloway]

The TCE Bam200 through an 8” Eminence Beta. TCE’s ratings should be taken with a grain of salt.

Not loud enough.

Criteria:

- less than 25 lbs
- less than $750 USD

That 8" Beta is REALLY stiff. It soaks up a whole bunch of power. I'd suggest getting an alternative cab running something a lot more efficient, preferably with a 12" speaker and you should be able to do it within you budget and weight spec (especially if you do it with a neodymium speaker).

[Cunamara]

My question is "are you having trouble hearing yourself, or is it that someone across the room cannot hear you?" The solutions are different. For the former, put the speaker in a position where you're "in the beam" such as on a chair behind you or tilted back and pointed towards your head. If it's the latter, then raising the amp do it; also consider your EQ- big band is not the place for a dark Jim Hall ES-175 type sound which you already know, I would imagine.

I use a DV Mark EG250 "Raw Dawg" though a TOOB Metro BG+ 6.5" and just played without sound reinforcement on an outdoor gig a couple of weeks ago. I could be heard clearly at close to 100 yards with the volume at noon and the volume on my GB10 at about 8. The tone quality of that amp and cab is excellent to my ears.

If 200W is just not loud enough, then I would second the "you don't need a new amp, you need a new speaker cab" opinion. You've already got a 200W amp. A 10" or 12" TOOB would do it- light, compact, excellent sound quality and well within your budget.

[BreckerFan]

If you can swing it Victoria’s Club Deluxe… which is basically a Fender deluxe circuit, but without the tremolo channel or bright cap..has a handy 1/2 power switch too

Funny enough I actually have one and can confirm it is an excellent amp. That or a Tweed Deluxe Reissue are usually what make it to the gig.

[Mick-7]

I grew up in the days when 100w was 100w! I have the deafness and tinnitus to prove it.

More like the days when no one used 6" & 8" speakers - 100w is still 100w.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Well I bought the Elf and the matching 1x10 cab to have a super portable system for my Fender Bass VI. Not nearly enough power. But now with the MarkBass head, the very same cab has a nice tight boom.

The MB 58 is a great amp and in a different league from Elves and BAM200s. It pumps 300W into 8 Ohms and has a much more robust power supply - so I'm not surprised that it's a clear step up. But the Elf seems to please a lot of bass players.

IIRC, a Bass VI has low output pickups. Many modern bass players use actives with much higher output levels. Feeding the Elf 2 volts will push it to much higher SPLs than the 500 to 700 mV max that you're probably getting out of the Bass VI. Many bass players complain that they hit the limiter on larger gigs. Pickup output levels could explain both your experience and why so many jazz guitar players have tried the Elf and found it lacking in maximum SPL. I definitely got more volume out of mine with the active EMG in my Les Paul than I did with the humbukcers in my archtops, and the inherent compression was noticeable.

[GuyBoden]

My 22watt Fender Deluxe Reverb (Valve/Tube) was always louder than my 100watt Solid State amp.