Wilkie Jimmy Bruno Model

[Stringswinger]

There's been a bump in the price of archtops, it seems. I'm too lazy to do the math for inflation, but I bought my archtop in 2006 and the current base price by the luthier was about $3000. I got a bargain because it was an experimental finish and he didn't like the results. It's a great playing and sounding guitar, some areas of the finish are definitely a little rough.

Lots of other luthiers at the time seemed in that ballpark of $3-4000. Since then costs have gone up: wood, shop equipment and tools, rent (commercial rent is amazingly high) and other materials not to mention health insurance, taxes, website and marketing costs, etc. Hopefully the price bump for guitars translates into a decent living for luthiers and better than "fast food wages."

Considering that materials for a carved archtop probably are about 1K today and it takes 100 hours of labor to build one, that would mean $30 per hour gross to the luthier. After expenses for rent, utilities, tools etc., that would not be enough for an American or European luthier. The price bump in the last 20 years means that at 8K, the luthier is making about the same as he/she would have made building that same guitar in 2006 for 4K.

[jads57]

Seems like people get really upset at when they aren’t congratulated for owning something expensive.
To me again this just gets into a look at how cool am I for owning something expensive.

And again I’m not putting down the luthier here for making a fine guitar. I’m addressing the point that how would you know how great it is as a guitar, if you don’t understand how to use it?
I say this again as a professional musician nothing else implied

If I was a race car driver,I could understand the tools of my trade,just like a carpenter,pro golfer,etc..
But why buy a Ferrari to just go the grocery store or work?
It seems a bit useless in my opinion.

Now again anyone else entitled to their opinion or to own whatever they like. My personal viewpoint is it has become more of a Trophy Wife scenario vs. the actual Music itself which is secondary at best.
Sorry if my opinions offend some of you.

[garybaldy]

Seems like people get really upset at when they aren’t congratulated for owning something expensive.
To me again this just gets into a look at how cool am I for owning something expensive.

And again I’m not putting down the luthier here for making a fine guitar. I’m addressing the point that how would you know how great it is as a guitar, if you don’t understand how to use it?
I say this again as a professional musician nothing else implied

If I was a race car driver,I could understand the tools of my trade,just like a carpenter,pro golfer,etc..
But why buy a Ferrari to just go the grocery store or work?
It seems a bit useless in my opinion.

Now again anyone else entitled to their opinion or to own whatever they like. My personal viewpoint is it has become more of a Trophy Wife scenario vs. the actual Music itself which is secondary at best.
Sorry if my opinions offend some of you.

Why do you think you may have offended anyone?

[j.l]

Seems like people get really upset at when they aren’t congratulated for owning something expensive.
To me again this just gets into a look at how cool am I for owning something expensive.

And again I’m not putting down the luthier here for making a fine guitar. I’m addressing the point that how would you know how great it is as a guitar, if you don’t understand how to use it?
I say this again as a professional musician nothing else implied

If I was a race car driver,I could understand the tools of my trade,just like a carpenter,pro golfer,etc..
But why buy a Ferrari to just go the grocery store or work?
It seems a bit useless in my opinion.

Now again anyone else entitled to their opinion or to own whatever they like. My personal viewpoint is it has become more of a Trophy Wife scenario vs. the actual Music itself which is secondary at best.
Sorry if my opinions offend some of you.

Jads57, I'm wondering how you feel about labor- or design-intensive, non-mass produced (and thus expensive) things more broadly?

We had our first child last year, and my wife bought a baby wrap for coming up on $3000. We're not wealthy, middle class at best; this was a big purchase that we planned for, and saved for (both of us) for a couple years. This wrap serves no purpose that something bought for $20 on Amazon couldn't do; as far as I can tell, it confers no status on us and communicates no status to others in the way that a Rolex or a BMW might. But it's very, very beautiful—handmade by a renowned weaver in Eastern Europe, tied in its colors to experiences and interests that matter a great deal to my wife. It took a long time, and it costs what it costs. If people are going to be able to sustain themselves making things like that, there have to be buyers who value those things enough to let the people who make them make a sustainable living. That's true of artists, or people making handmade furniture, or people making archtop guitars. Without that, you get exactly what we see around us all the time: featureless, depressing buildings built to the lowest possible price point with no architectural significance and little beauty, full of poorly-made disposable IKEA furniture.

The mindset that these guitars are properly only deserved by those who make money with them seems to me like a lie that's been sold to us by those who want to reduce the value of our lives to our economic output and significance—something that's impoverishing us all. Much better to value beauty where we find it, and where it connects to us personally, and to try when we're able to sustain a world where skilled people can make beautiful things. And that includes valuing professional musicians enough to pay them what they need to buy whatever instruments they want (on a long enough timescale of saving)—a mark that our society is falling far short of, as you're pointing out!

[Hep To The Jive]

I could be wrong, but to me it seems the archtops of the past, like Gibson L5, were made for working musicians in mind. I'm judging by appearance. Those 30's-40's L5 don't look fancy to me, simple tailpieces, headstock, basic shape... Dangelicos maybe a little bit more bling, but compare to what I see in modern archtops, them were pretty modest instruments.

That make me kind of agree with the point that modern luthiers cater more to collectors than working musicians. Of course there are no demand for acoustic archtops like it was back in the day, but that's another matter. As for myself, I don't need a work of art, I need a simple functional instrument, and I don't see it in modern archtops.

[jads57]

I guess I’m just sad that we have such fine tools but no real viable ways of hearing these tools made to actually produce equally great music for all of us!

Again I’m not against fine instruments or great luthiers. I think we have it backwards when the Music itself is the most important thing that is not supported.

[AKA]

Photos of Jimmy’s instrument.

[Aiq]

My bucket list includes getting a bespoke suit made. I better get on it!

[FourOnSix]

Photos of Jimmy’s instrument.

Beautiful! To get back on topic, the ironic thing about this whole thread is that when I it comes to status seekers, Jimmy Bruno is probably the last person that would come to mind!

[jads57]

Apologies for derailing this thread. It’s a beautiful instrument for a very talented musician!
Just sorry it ends up so hard for artists like Jimmy Bruno to make a decent living.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Beautiful! To get back on topic, the ironic thing about this whole thread is that when I it comes to status seekers, Jimmy Bruno is probably the last person that would come to mind!

You got that right. Back in the day, he treated his Benedetto 7 like a $20 Sears guitar. He stuck lit cigarettes between strings and headstock, tossed it on pianos during breaks, and took no pains to protect it.

I once asked him how Bob B responded when he saw such obvious abuse of a world class instrument. His response was something like “I don’t care - it’s my guitar.”

[garybaldy]

My bucket list includes getting a bespoke suit made. I better get on it!

Only if it's for a highly paid job!

[Hep To The Jive]

Photos of Jimmy’s instrument.

It is beautiful indeed. But I still don't get it, who and why invented wooden tailpieces. It looks like there is still metal inside, so what's the point, what does it do except extra work and extra price? Really don't get it.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

It is beautiful indeed. But I still don't get it, who and why invented wooden tailpieces. It looks like there is still metal inside, so what's the point, what does it do except extra work and extra price? Really don't get it.

It looks beautiful to me too. That’s enough justification. There’s room out there for all of our tastes and opinions.

[garybaldy]

It is beautiful indeed. But I still don't get it, who and why invented wooden tailpieces. It looks like there is still metal inside, so what's the point, what does it do except extra work and extra price? Really don't get it.

I like this sort - plain and simple but I've seen one on ebay for $400. This is the one one my '34 L7.

[Hep To The Jive]

I like this sort - plain and simple but I've seen one on ebay for $400. This is the one one my '34 L7.

That's what I'm talking about, working class look, simple and beautiful. My favorite is Klusson one.

[jads57]

The idea I believe behind the wood tailpiece was to emulate a violin,cello etc. And it’s usually attached with a cable which wraps around the end pin.
The Metal ones are usually non movable and therefore easier to restring.

Thus the reinforcement of metal is functional,and aesthetically pleasing as well.

[SierraTango]

You got that right. Back in the day, he treated his Benedetto 7 like a $20 Sears guitar. He stuck lit cigarettes between strings and headstock, tossed it on pianos during breaks, and took no pains to protect it.

I once asked him how Bob B responded when he saw such obvious abuse of a world class instrument. His response was something like “I don’t care - it’s my guitar.”

Indeed, during the time I spent with him I played one of his 7 string Benedettos. It was a road dog for sure-grunge on the fretboard, burn marks on the headstock between the 7th string and binding. IIRC he had two-a 16" and a 17" both blonde. Also his Benny 7.
At that point in time, he was a Camel straight smoker and you can see in the photo I posted he's cupping one in his left hand.
I don't think he's a status seeker...

[Hep To The Jive]

It looks beautiful to me too. That’s enough justification. There’s room out there for all of our tastes and opinions.

Indeed, only your room seems to be much bigger than mine lol. I mean, if I was in the market for a new archtop (which I am actually), anything I saw recently has those wooden tailpieces, I can't think of any modern ones that don't. The only choice is to custom order I guess, which isn't a bad idea also...

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

The idea I believe behind the wood tailpiece was to emulate a violin,cello etc. And it’s usually attached with a cable which wraps around the end pin.
The Metal ones are usually non movable and therefore easier to restring.

Thus the reinforcement of metal is functional, and aesthetically pleasing as well.

The nylon cord (now also available in Kevlar and other modern materials) is called a Sacconi cable. It was invented about 70 years ago by Simone Sacconi to replace the gut that was used since the beginning on bowed instruments. The modern Sacconi has threaded adjustable ends and is used by Benedetto on their high end guitars. (The wood TP on my Bravo has a metal end piece to which the wood is screwed.)

The metal under wooden tailpieces on amplified guitars is there to ground the strings. Some with Sacconi TPs use either conductive foil a thin bare wire along the underside of the TP to ground the strings. Pure acoustic archtops don’t need it, and some high end luithiers don't ground the strings even on guitars with pickups. I don't know if Benedettos with Sacconi style TPs have ground wires. I'm hoping that those here who own them will tell us.

[garybaldy]

That's what I'm talking about, working class look, simple and beautiful. My favorite is Klusson one.

I have a similar one (if not the same) on my Harmony Meteor!

[AKA]

Indeed, during the time I spent with him I played one of his 7 string Benedettos. It was a road dog for sure-grunge on the fretboard, burn marks on the headstock between the 7th string and binding. IIRC he had two-a 16" and a 17" both blonde. Also his Benny 7.
At that point in time, he was a Camel straight smoker and you can see in the photo I posted he's cupping one in his left hand.
I don't think he's a status seeker...

Besides being an outstanding guitarist, he has been a complicated character over the years; and not only with the handling of his finely built instruments. In his NGD video he looked to be in good health and had done away with the unruly mustache he’s sported for quite some time. And, he seemed over the top with his new instrument! I don’t think he’ll be hanging cigarettes off of it. Well, I hope not.

[nyc chaz]

Beautiful! To get back on topic, the ironic thing about this whole thread is that when I it comes to status seekers, Jimmy Bruno is probably the last person that would come to mind!

That's true about Jimmy,but it's probably also true that he most likely didn't pay full boat for that guitar or he got it gratis for putting his name on it just like other guitars in the past.Most builders want their guitars to be seen and played by top pro's,the only guy contrary to this is Borys who refuses to give guitar pro's a discount or freebie.

[garybaldy]

That's what I'm talking about, working class look, simple and beautiful. My favorite is Klusson one.

Sorry, that working class looking Gibson TP is is listed on Ebay for $495!

[AKA]

The nylon cord (now also available in Kevlar and other modern materials) is called a Sacconi cable. It was invented about 70 years ago by Simone Sacconi to replace the gut that was used since the beginning on bowed instruments. The modern Sacconi has threaded adjustable ends and is used by Benedetto on their high end guitars. (The wood TP on my Bravo has a metal end piece to which the wood is screwed.)

The metal under wooden tailpieces on amplified guitars is there to ground the strings. Some with Sacconi TPs use either conductive foil a thin bare wire along the underside of the TP to ground the strings. Pure acoustic archtops don’t need it, and some high end luithiers don't ground the strings even on guitars with pickups. I don't know if Benedettos with Sacconi style TPs have ground wires. I'm hoping that those here who own them will tell us.

Photos of the tailpieces on my ‘90 Benedetto with floating pickup; and recent Wilkie acoustic archtop. No metal in either.