Volume pot behavior

[Cunamara]

Thanks, this guy has the clearest explanation yet. It turns out the volume pot I am using is interacting with the tone pot somehow. Now the question is, do I change the tone pots or modify the wiring in some other way to fix it?

Check whether your guitar has modern, 50s or 60s wiring. The three different wiring methods result in slightly different behavior from the volume and tone potentiometers. Cheap and easy as it's just moving one wire to try different layouts.

Vintage '50s Wiring - Premier Guitar

[Herbie]

Somewhere in the guitar forums was a reminder to make sure the pots are properly grounded. I don’t know how it would affect but it is easy to check out.

[JCat]

The stock volume pots had a very abrupt taper where the guitar produced very little volume until around 8 on the knob, then suddenly there was an enormous leap, then very minor gradient up to 10 which is too loud/hot for my needs. I hate this behavior. I have owned several guitars that exhibit the behavior I am seeking which is a very gradual and even increase/decrease in volume from 1-10 on the knob.

This is typical behavior of a regular 500k audio taper pot. You say you "hate" it. I say most experienced players love it.

Some people recommend "always keep your guitar controls on full throttle". The rationale is to get the strongest possible signal, the best SNR possible and the brightest tone possible. It also means that the beginner avoids confusing pot behavior. And it means there will be a greater probability of having the distortion that many consumers lust for. This is the Jazz guitar forum, and even though some Jazz is played with distortion, most players like to avoid it. Many Jazz players also like to avoid the brightest tone possible. Still, there are lots of beginners hanging around this place. Some are experienced players but new to Jazz etc. If a Jazz player would recommend "always keep your guitar controls on full throttle" it says something about his individual guitars and his individual amps and it says something about his attitude, but this got nothing to do with you and me.

Try this: Before dialing in the amp; set guitar volume and tone to about 8 on the knob (that's the audio taper "knee" that you've identified). Now you've got a volume and treble boost at your finger tips, (which is exactly what most experienced players want. If you for some reason is adamant about removing this feature, you could try 300k pots, possibly in vintage wiring).

I tried to fix this last year by replacing the stock ES-335 pots (which I believe were audio taper) with Mojotone vintage linear taper pots. This solved nothing and the guitar exhibits the same behavior. Reading various forums about peoples preferences is no help as it seems most modern players like the sudden jump because it helps them switch between clean and dirty tones quickly and no one seems to have consensus on what kind of pot does what and why. One solution that piqued my interest was installing a cap on the pot. Apparently the Howard Roberts that I love so much has a treble bleed cap of some kind which may change the taper of the pot?

This is a very problematic text, you're all over the place.

"I tried to fix it"...Do you really know what you're doing? A 335 isn't exactly the kind of guitar that invites to electronics experimentation (understatement).

"There's no consensus"...Of course there isn't. Consensus is pointless. We all got different combinations of pickups, guitar electronics, amps and speakers. And there are so many music genres and tones. (And you are correct; most consumers on the web want maximum distortion all the time.)

"Treble bleed cap"...Treble loss when turning volume down is the nature of analog potentiometers. The Volume pot regulates volume and tone simultaneously, which can be used to your advantage. Most experienced Jazz players think it's great, because it facilitates getting nice, warm Jazz tones. But fair enough, sometimes in the studio when adjusting guitar volume one also would have to adjust the guitar tone control to compensate for that treble loss. (and this is why it's beneficial to back off guitar tone before setting the amp). Should this be too confusing, consider vintage wiring that preserves treble when volume is rolled back. (Vintage wiring changes the behavior of the Tone knob and if you can't live with it, then a Treble bleed may be a fix, but also comes with new complications, e.g finding the "right" value on the treble bleed cap...because it's ultimately a question about amps and speakers.)

-If you like the Howard Roberts electronics, why didn't you just copy it?

[Strat-itis]

Both pots are brand new Mojotone Vintage Taper. Both pots behave the same with no signs of faulty wiring.

Vintage taper is not linear - it's a type of audio.

20% vintage, for example, means the volume is at 20% with the knob at 5.

Get actual linear taper pots.

People please stop pushing nonsense that the make of the guitar itself has something to do with a pot's sweep, or that sweep is interpretable.

[zbingham]

Vintage taper is not linear - it's a type of audio.

20% vintage, for example, means the volume is at 20% with the knob at 5.

Get actual linear taper pots.

People please stop pushing nonsense that the make of the guitar itself has something to do with a pot's sweep, or that sweep is interpretable.

Thanks. It turns out the pots do behave like I expected but only when the tone pot is full on 10. So now I just have to figure out how to wire it so the tone pot doesn't change the behavior of the volume pot.

[zbingham]

This is typical behavior of a regular 500k audio taper pot. You say you "hate" it. I say most experienced players love it.

Some people recommend "always keep your guitar controls on full throttle". The rationale is to get the strongest possible signal, the best SNR possible and the brightest tone possible. It also means that the beginner avoids confusing pot behavior. And it means there will be a greater probability of having the distortion that many consumers lust for. This is the Jazz guitar forum, and even though some Jazz is played with distortion, most players like to avoid it. Many Jazz players also like to avoid the brightest tone possible. Still, there are lots of beginners hanging around this place. Some are experienced players but new to Jazz etc. If a Jazz player would recommend "always keep your guitar controls on full throttle" it says something about his individual guitars and his individual amps and it says something about his attitude, but this got nothing to do with you and me.

Try this: Before dialing in the amp; set guitar volume and tone to about 8 on the knob (that's the audio taper "knee" that you've identified). Now you've got a volume and treble boost at your finger tips, (which is exactly what most experienced players want. If you for some reason is adamant about removing this feature, you could try 300k pots, possibly in vintage wiring).




This is a very problematic text, you're all over the place.

"I tried to fix it"...Do you really know what you're doing? A 335 isn't exactly the kind of guitar that invites to electronics experimentation (understatement).

"There's no consensus"...Of course there isn't. Consensus is pointless. We all got different combinations of pickups, guitar electronics, amps and speakers. And there are so many music genres and tones. (And you are correct; most consumers on the web want maximum distortion all the time.)

"Treble bleed cap"...Treble loss when turning volume down is the nature of analog potentiometers. The Volume pot regulates volume and tone simultaneously, which can be used to your advantage. Most experienced Jazz players think it's great, because it facilitates getting nice, warm Jazz tones. But fair enough, sometimes in the studio when adjusting guitar volume one also would have to adjust the guitar tone control to compensate for that treble loss. (and this is why it's beneficial to back off guitar tone before setting the amp). Should this be too confusing, consider vintage wiring that preserves treble when volume is rolled back. (Vintage wiring changes the behavior of the Tone knob and if you can't live with it, then a Treble bleed may be a fix, but also comes with new complications, e.g finding the "right" value on the treble bleed cap...because it's ultimately a question about amps and speakers.)

-If you like the Howard Roberts electronics, why didn't you just copy it?

Copying the wiring harness from the HR is on my list of possibilities. It turns out the tone pot is changing the behavior of the volume pot so I am now seeking to remove that interactivity. Per some of your other points, when I use Strats and Fuzz Faces I still don't think of this as a feature. I can see how some players would like it but for me personally it doesn't work with either clean or dirty tones for my playing style. I need the volume and tone pots to operate smoothly and independently no matter the situation.

[Strat-itis]

Thanks. It turns out the pots do behave like I expected but only when the tone pot is full on 10. So now I just have to figure out how to wire it so the tone pot doesn't change the behavior of the volume pot.

Now you're happy with the volume pot taper? Ok.. I ain't your papa. Tone connected before the volume output doesn't affect the volume level but is darker - standard wiring. Tone connected after the volume output does affect the volume level but doesn't darken as much - '50s'.

Fwiw: 50s will not drop the volume pot's taper drastically, that is the work of the vintage taper volume pot you have. If you want your volume pot to behave normally for clean jazz guitar playing, you must stick a linear pot in there. Vintage taper is not linear. Pot specs are also not vibe and interpretation - they behave the same way every time.

[Strat-itis]

Several years ago, I bought a 2013 VOS 50th Anniversary/‘63 reissue. It was a beautiful guitar with the look and feel of a real vintage model. I loved everything about it, except for the exact same issue you have described. I found it very difficult to work with the volume pot. Not only did it drop off drastically below about 8, it also killed the tone when you turned the volume down. I contemplated having work done of the electronics, but decided to just sell it instead. I probably should have tried to have something done about this issue, because the guitar was fantastic in every other way. I don’t understand why it was like this. I have owned many other Gibsons, including a real 1960’s ES-335 and never experienced this before or since.
Keith

Hi Keith, I'm sorry about this story. Having read this, I think I need to reply to explain even tho the thread is derelict. It's simply the pot taper, it is not the 'guitar'.

Linear will have normal sweep for clean playing.
Log / audio turns down quickly.
There is also reverse log that turns down very slowly.
Or vintage which is a type of audio.

Simply replace the $5 pot yourself or have a tech do it.