Super 400 body dimensions request for new Mr. Wu build

[Crawlin-kingsnake]

Hi, my name´s Lorenz and I´m new to the forum. Located in Germany.

I am in need for body dimensions for a Super 400 CES.

Reason is I plan on having another S400 copy built by Mr.Wu. I had him made me a very fine acoustic S400C copy, but since he builds from Benedetto´s book his 18" form is just the regular 17" body with wider bouts, so the body is 3/4-1" too short. The sharp eye detects a minimal stout body.

For the new build I want to get closer and include what I had learned on the Super 400s since then (i.e. tapered headstock, f-hole dimensions, electric bracing, electric top thickness). Lora said he´ll make a new form if I provide measurements.

So, if there´s somebody out there who´s willing to measure body length, width top,waist, tailpiece length, pot spacing, toggle location, PU-spacing center to center of P90 or AlnicoV (they are a bit smaller than PAFs so center spacing is not exactly the same) I´d appreciate it.

Guitar will be mid 50s clone with the SD AlnicoVs I have in my current Epiphone.

I´ve attached a pic of my current Mr.Wu. 3rd fret inlay is not in line for whatever reason.....maybe apprentice did the inlays and Mr Wu wasn´t looking :-)

Pickguard and tailpiece I made on my own in case you wonder.

[2bornot2bop]

The question is does Wu have the capacity to build a larger guitar? He may be limited by the size of his book matched plates.

and is Wu even building anymore?

[Sigmund451]

Ive read a few thread here that would make me pause even if they say they can. Recent experience some have hand would make me thing twice. Id run a search.

[Crawlin-kingsnake]

Well, I`ve read the recent unpleasent experience one member had, already. My acoustic was done around the same time and I have nothing to complain, except the not-in-line inlay on 3rd fret.
I talked to Mrs. Lora these days and she confirmed that he himself is still doing the builds, but has slowed down in volume.......we can not proof this, only believe.

[2bornot2bop]

Well, I`ve read the recent unpleasent experience one member had, already. My acoustic was done around the same time and I have nothing to complain, except the not-in-line inlay on 3rd fret.
I talked to Mrs. Lora these days and she confirmed that he himself is still doing the builds, but has slowed down in volume.......we can not proof this, only believe.

Lorenz, your S400 acoustic looks fabulous. What is the depth of your guitar? I’m asking because I had an 18” Wu and requested 4” depth on the sides. That was a mistake, and I should have stuck with Gibson’s traditional 3 3/8” depth. The guitar didn’t truly have the dynamics that I was expecting.

[Crawlin-kingsnake]

Thank you very much. Yours is the Blue Tulip, right?
Mine says 3.375" (86mm) on the order sheet. I´d have to measure the actual depth, but think it is what was ordered.
My only acoustic archtop comparison is an early 50s german Fasan, also 18" but much higher arched. Sounds different. Can´t say which one sounds nicer, but the Wu plays better. The Fasan has a very radiused fretboard and hefty neck (no trussrod!)

[garybaldy]

Thank you very much. Yours is the Blue Tulip, right?
Mine says 3.375" (86mm) on the order sheet. I´d have to measure the actual depth, but think it is what was ordered.
My only acoustic archtop comparison is an early 50s german Fasan, also 18" but much higher arched. Sounds different. Can´t say which one sounds nicer, but the Wu plays better. The Fasan has a very radiused fretboard and hefty neck (no trussrod!)

May we see a pic of the Fasan please?
I have 2 of the budget ones. This one has a trussrod but it's non - adjustable and the neck has a bit too much relief.

[GuyBoden]

The body of a Mr Wu guitar doesn't look like a Gibson Super 400.

Mr Wu guitar bodies mostly look the same to my eyes, same design. My 18 inch Yunzhi looks like my 17 inch Mr Wu guitar body, but bigger. (Mr Wu worked with Yunzhi).

[Crawlin-kingsnake]

Well, I saved that Fasan from getting trashed. It came in pieces:
Neck had fallen off at the heel, top had cracks and was separated from the rim at the neck block and in the cutaway. Bracing was loose. Neck block cracked in the dovetail. Neck was bowed, frets worn down. Bridge base missing.
I took my time and slowly fixed everything with hot bone glue. I had nothing to loose so learing by doing.
That was some 15 years ago. Unfortunately I can´t find the pre pics anymore. Solid ever since. Neck didn´t move one hair and that is with .013 gauge.
I had slightly messed up with the neck angle so it is almost too steep. Bridge is very high. I had to modify the bridge base with longer threaded rods to compensate.
This year I finally tackled to repair the shrunken and separated binding in the cutaway. I cut out the damaged part and blended in new binding. While at it I made a new Gibson inspired pickguard and prewar Super 400 bracket from scratch. And I replaced the worn out tuning machines with the Wilkinsons that came with my Wu (swapped the Wilkinson black plastic buttons for Imperial ones).

Enjoy the pics. Looks way better on camera then in reality.

I tried to capture the heavy arch in the top. Could be best seen at the round soundhole.

[Crawlin-kingsnake]

The body of a Mr Wu guitar doesn't look like a Gibson Super 400.

Mr Wu guitar bodies mostly look the same to my eyes, same design. My 18 inch Yunzhi looks like my 17 inch Mr Wu guitar body, but bigger. (Mr Wu worked with Yunzhi).

Yes, and that is why I asked for some measurements off of an original.

[garybaldy]

Well, I saved that Fasan from getting trashed. It came in pieces:
Neck had fallen off at the heel, top had cracks and was separated from the rim at the neck block and in the cutaway. Bracing was loose. Neck block cracked in the dovetail. Neck was bowed, frets worn down. Bridge base missing.
I took my time and slowly fixed everything with hot bone glue. I had nothing to loose so learing by doing.
That was some 15 years ago. Unfortunately I can´t find the pre pics anymore. Solid ever since. Neck didn´t move one hair and that is with .013 gauge.
I had slightly messed up with the neck angle so it is almost too steep. Bridge is very high. I had to modify the bridge base with longer threaded rods to compensate.
This year I finally tackled to repair the shrunken and separated binding in the cutaway. I cut out the damaged part and blended in new binding. While at it I made a new Gibson inspired pickguard and prewar Super 400 bracket from scratch. And I replaced the worn out tuning machines with the Wilkinsons that came with my Wu (swapped the Wilkinson black plastic buttons for Imperial ones).

Enjoy the pics. Looks way better on camera then in reality.

I tried to capture the heavy arch in the top. Could be best seen at the round soundhole.

A very nice job. Some wonderful work there. Your Fasan is in a totally different class to my two!
How did you straight the neck? Heat?
Thanks

[Crawlin-kingsnake]

Thank you.
After setting the neck I did pull the frets and planed (read sanded) the fretboard to level. I used a plane block (didn´t want to buy a radius block) for a compensated radius. Then recut the fret slots for enough depth.
Since there was no trussrod I had supported the headstock and put a big box of iron scraps on the top to mimic the string tension. I had restrung with 13 gauge before and measured deflection, then added enough metal weight untill I was there.
Fret tang thickness was calculated into this.
End result:
Straight fretboard/neck with minimal relief. No buzz. Low action.

I think my model was one of the higher level ones from Fasan.

[GuyBoden]

Yes, and that is why I asked for some measurements off of an original.

Sorry, but personally, before a build, I'd like to see a picture of a Mr Wu built guitar that looks like a Gibson.

[Spook410]

An 18" guitar from Wu will be similar to an 18" guitar made by Eastman. It won't be all that similar to a Gibson regardless of dimensions, bracing, or materials. The carve is not the same and if he were to try to make it the same, not sure you would like the one off result. Wu builds on the Benedetto pattern. Like Yunzhi. Like Eastman. These are great guitars but they don't sound like a Gibson archtop. And yes.. I do have experience with this. I have 4 guitars made by Wu both while he was at Yunzhi and as an independent. And I have a nice Gibson L5 CES to compare them to. A bit of apples to oranges since the Gibson has two built in humbuckers, but you can still hear the basic difference in the sound. And honestly, I prefer my Wu guitars for their crisp acoustic qualities versus the Gibson. But, like comparing Martin guitars to Taylor to Gibson.. they are all quite different while having their own sound. So if you want something that sounds like a Gibson Super 400, don't think a Wu build will get you there.

[Gustavo Eiriz]

Be aware that Gibson's thicker builds sounds better electrified than Wu builds which for sure acoustically are more responsive.

[GuyBoden]

I'm predicting that if Mr Wu builds a guitar with an 18inch lower bout it will be the same as his 17inch guitars, but bigger.

An 18 inch version of the Crawlin-kingsnake guitar below: