Fender Showman amp for jazz?

[MelodiousThunk]

I currently have a Heritage H-530 and a closed-back Fender Super-Sonic 60 2x12" cabinet. Recently, I’ve become interested in learning fingerstyle jazz, so I’m looking for something to power my 2x12.

I’ve been impressed with Surfy Industries’ build quality on their other products, so I’ve been considering the SurfyMan/SurfyPower preamp/power amp combo. From what I understand, this setup essentially replicates a Fender Showman-style amp. It also includes a “Blackface” tremolo button and a Vintage EQ button that shifts the EQ curve to that classic scooped “V” Blackface sound.

Does anyone have experience with this setup? Or, has anyone used a Showman-style amp in a jazz context?

I’m trying to figure out whether the SurfyMan/SurfyPower would be a good fit for fingerstyle jazz, or if I should be looking in a different direction.

Thanks in advance!


SurfyMan: Starting with the concepts born in the Blossom Point and the SurfyTrem, we have now developed something even more special, an incredible character preamp pedal with a sophisticated Brownface amp emulator, complete with an efficient headphone preamp and a direct-recording unit!

The Blossom Point is already a top choice for any musician looking for the sound quality of a Brownface Fender® amplifier (1960-1963), featuring an incredibly fat and warm sound without getting into distortion. The idea of the Blossom Point specifically came to us from the Presence knob on the original Fender® Showman® amplifiers, so why not push it even further and make the entire 6G14® available AND affordable to all with a Showman® amp emulation? In no time, the SurfyMan project was set in motion.

The SurfyMan is a truly unique product: it not only replicates the sound of a Brownface amplifier with its typical fat tone and the PRESENCE control, but it also features the true tone-stack and the exact same circuitry of a Showman®, where every change of the input VOLUME (gain), TREBLE and BASS controls create an unlimited amount of sound possibilities. The SurfyMan actually transforms your sound: it gives you fatness, but also sustain, brightness, power, it clarifies your tone and can even make it more aggressive, if that's what you're after. It's just magic, whether you plug it into your amp (OUT) or to a mixing console, PA or headphone, either using unbalanced or balanced 1/4" jacks!

In the chain, as you find in a Showman® amp, you have the tremolo, with our typical SurfyTrem brownface/blackface selection, and the master VOLUME to correct the overall sound, since the pedal is TRUE BYPASS. The SurfyMan's power requirements are 9-18V at any polarity. The SurfyMan also has style, it's all metal chassis and real OXBLOOD grill cloth set it off in class!

If you are traveling musician with little carry-on possibilities, a SurfyMan and a SurfyBear Compact reverb unit is really all you need: you can plug in everywhere, in any stage situation and to any amp configuration, always getting that perfect Brown Showman® sound.





SurfyPower: This is the perfect companion to the SurfyMan converting it into a pocket-size 200W solid state amplifier with the character of a legendary 1960 Fender!is the perfect companion to the SurfyMan converting it into a pocket-size 200W solid state amplifier with the character of a legendary 1960 Fender!
The launch of the SurfyMan has been a game changer for many musicians around the world: a preamp conceived to put in a box the magic of the Fender® Brownface sound, replicating its compression and fat character, bringing a fuller, glorious sound to any modern amplifier. This also allows the player to get more out of our SurfyBear spring reverb units by naturally extending the decay of their effect.

But then we thought: what if we connected something to the SurfyMan in a smart, comfortable and handy way, that would transform it into a complete amplifier head? Starting from an FRFR solid state amplifier (Full Range Flat Response), with the idea of driving it using the SurfyMan, we created the SurfyPower, our first step into the world of guitar amplification.

SurfyMan and SurfyPower combo simply connect to each other MAGNETICALLY and by using short jumper cables (provided) the two units share signal and power.
There are 2 speaker outputs available, allowing the user to connect to 1 or 2 speaker cabinets, plus the LINE OUT of the SurfyMan and all its functionalities, and from the SurfyPower DC jack thru-output you can even power up your SurfyBear reverb!

The SurfyPower and SurfyMan combo makes one of the smallest (portable), most powerful, and better sounding guitar/bass amplifiers on the market today, peaking 200W at 4 ohm total impedance.







Fender Super-Sonic 60 212 Enclosure:
Super-Sonic amps are the favorites of pro guitarists in many genres who love glorious Fender clean tone and expressive modern high-gain from one no-nonsense tube amp. Perfect for stage and studio, the Super-Sonic 60 212 enclosure pairs perfectly with Super-Sonic heads and other quality tube amps. Unlike most other 2x12" enclosures, this classic Fender design includes an oversized baffle board with a slight tilt for a distinctively rich and resonant response.

[AllanAllen]

I've never heard of them, but I'll be the first one to say you can get a jazz tone out of any amp. Just learn how to use the knobs on your guitar and amp and you can find something that'll work.

Joe Pass toured with his guitar and a D.I. box.

A bunch of the jazz guitar greats who lived long enough went from tubes to solid state. If you watch the Great Guitars concerts on youtube, they're all playing through Peavey solid state amps.

So it's quite likely we have tone hounds chasing 'authentic tube tone' based on recordings made direct to a mixer or with solid state amps. Just because there is a picture of a Gibson and a Twin Reverb on the cover doesn't mean it was in the studio.


TLDR:
If you like how a showman sounds, and this Surfyman gets close enough for you, go for it.

[John A.]

Right off the bat I'd say I that don't think any amp is specifically more suited to playing fingerstyle vs picking than another. It's entirely a matter of personal preference on that, as well as the overall question of whether it works for jazz. FWIW, I mix up my picking style (mostly flatpick single lines, mostly hybrid pick comping, a bit of everything for solo playing.

FWIW, I've used Dual Showmans (men?) a few times. ¯\_(?)_/¯. It's a classic Fender amp with the classic Fender sound. If you like it you like it; if you don't you don't. I generally do, with the caveat that I prefer the lower powered Fenders to the higher powered ones because I like to be able to get a little compression/break-up at a reasonable volume. A Showman is the same thing as a Twin Reverb (but without the reverb and speakers). If you've used one of those, that will give you an idea of how this sounds (assuming it is faithful to the sound of a real Showman). Personally, I could not store or carry a cabinet that big and heavy. I also prefer amps with reverb, so that set-up would not work for me. But I really don't think anyone but you can say whether it would work for you.

[andrew]

I haven't played a blonde Showman, but I did build a blonde Bassman clone, whose normal channel is very similar to that of the blonde Showman (just half the power). Much like the later BF amps, all the blonde amps had pretty similar circuits (excluding the tremolo). For jazz, it was okay, but not my favorite of all time. It's really pretty similar to a Blackface non-reverb circuit, just with slightly different tone stack values, which puts the midrange in a slightly different place.

The blonde and brown Fender amps kind of get overlooked because they're not the Tweeds and they're not the Blackface. Some people consider them to be the best of both worlds, but I think of them as "neither fish, nor fowl". But hey, Wes used a blonde Fender Concert for quite a while in the early 60s.

The blonde harmonic tremolo circuit is a great sound, just not necessarily the most at-home in straight ahead jazz. It almost sounds like a uni-vibe.

I hadn't seen their new compact power amp before. That's a pretty neat little module. It doesn't look like they're selling it separately at the time being, only in a combo with the preamp pedal. Too bad.

EDIT: It looks like other stores are indeed selling the power module separately. The manufacturer's website, however, only sells it in a package with the preamp pedal.

[MelodiousThunk]

Thanks for all the input so far. This has been helpful. I should’ve mentioned earlier that I’ve already got reverb covered with a SurfyBear Classic. I am not sure why I didn’t mention that before. Maybe it slipped my mind since it’s currently on loan. I also don’t plan on gigging or moving anything around, so weight isn’t a factor. My thinking was that, since I already have the cabinet (and given my positive experiences with Surfy Industries gear) their preamp/power amp could be a solid option. And, would match the blonde aesthetic I inadvertently have going. A Quilter would be another option.


@AllanAllen: The last time I played through a Showman was about 30 years ago, so my memory is pretty hazy.

@John A.: I’m a big fan of Twin Reverbs. I didn’t realize they’re essentially the same amps.

@andrew: Just curious, I’ve never come across a blonde Concert before. Is it possible it was a brown one? Not saying blondes don’t exist, just that I haven’t personally seen one.




SURFYBEAR CLASSIC REVERB UNIT This is our top-of-the-line product and the perfect match to your vintage amplifier!:

WHAT IS THE SURFYBEAR?

The original piece of electronics that started it all for us! This is a controller, initially produced as a DIY kit, featuring the same specifications of the Fender® 6G15® reverb unit, replacing the tubes with JFET transistor technology. This is NOT a digital effect and it incorporates a real spring reverb pan.

Spring reverb technology has been well known for more than 50 years. One of the first reverb units available for electric guitars was the Fender® 6G15® standalone reverb, released in 1962, which has set the standard for generations of musicians. Still today, the unique sound of spring reverbs is very popular among guitarists. But the sound of the 6G15® is something unique, it is truly an instrument on its own. As a musician you learn to play and interact with the springs, creating that "drippy" sound which became typical in surf music, but also applied to many different styles and situations.

A detailed description of the Fender® 6G15® reverb can be found on the SurfGuitar101 Wiki.

The SurfyBear has become today's market leader, keeping the price more reasonable than the now discontinued and collectible Fender® unit, smaller in size and reliable in any way, especially for traveling musicians. Also at Surfy Industries we never stop developing better and more sophisticated versions of our products, working with great partners like Belton/Accutronics® that helped us creating our own reverb pan, the SurfyPan, closer to the sound and decay of the original and unmatched Gibbs® pans from the early 60s.

[andrew]

Sorry, I misspoke when I said “blonde Concert”. Both the blonde and brown amps coexisted at the same time. Both had brown colored faceplates, but one had blonde tolex and white knobs while the other had brown tolex and brown knobs. The cosmetics changed a lot from 1960-63. Grill cloths changed, tolex changed, etc.

The key differentiator is that the smaller (brown) amps had a single tone knob, which made them more tweed-like. Whereas the larger amps (mostly blonde, but not exclusively) had a tone stack with treble and bass controls, which made them sound like precursors to the blackface amps.

[213Cobra]

>>I hadn't seen their new compact power amp before. That's a pretty neat little module. It doesn't look like they're selling it separately at the time being, only in a combo with the preamp pedal. Too bad.

EDIT: It looks like other stores are indeed selling the power module separately. The manufacturer's website, however, only sells it in a package with the preamp pedal.<<

Today, on the Surfy website, at least when you select US/Canada, the power amp is listed as a separately-available item, $440.

Phil

[starjasmine]

Get your hands on one and try it for yourself. There's really no other way to know if it will work for you. Buying an amp based on manufacturers' claims that it sounds like some venerated classic - Fender, Dumble, whatever - is risky at best. Forum posts are not a great litmus, either: one person's "perfect tone" might not work at all for you.

If you can't find one of these in retail setting to try before you buy, see if you can purchase from an online retailer with a generous return policy. Looks like Sweetwater, Musicians Friend and GC carry Surfy amps.

Or... just get an actual Showman, Twin, Bassman, etc. Well-built tube amps aren't all that fragile. If it's a 60 year old piece of gear, you may have to have it recapped or whatever, but once that's done, you have another 60 years coming.

Weight is really the only serious consideration with tube amps, IMHO. And you've already admitted to owning a 70-lb 2x12 cab, so I don't think weight is dealbreaker for you :-) Seriously, l'd look for a nice vintage Fender tube amp head.

[LesB3]

I have the "Surfy-man" unit (but not the power unit), which is connected to my Focusrite and used as an amp simulator to give my guitar "character" if / when I ever record it. I've never used it in front of an amp, but would be curious to hear it paired with the power unit and plugged into a cabinet. I bought it as a happy medium between my two Fender-style amps: a custom Princeton (15W, 12" Celestion Blue) and a Suhr Hombre (15W brownface clone, Jensen P12R). It actually does quite a good job of that.

It has a switch that allows the tone controls to act like a "brown" or "black" fender, and the built-in tremolo is actually quite good. Though I am not a jazz musician, I do enjoy playing some jazz some of the time. I lean less towards a "blanket over the amp" sound and more towards a slightly bell-like 50's sound; think Brian Setzer's Sleepwalk, though not so strident. Paired with an El Pescadoro (Plate Reverb + Preamp) and I have pretty much every clean sound I can imagine. I have not yet found an overdrive that I like with the Surfy-man, just in case that is a concern for you.

I don't have any experience with your cab, though I do have a Supersonic 22W combo (single 12" Fender speaker). I was not impressed with the speaker and replaced it with (something). It sits, unused, in my room. The interwebs say that your combo, however, might come with a pair of Vintage 30's. If so, these are generally considered good "rock" speakers, but unsure how they might sound as a Jazz speaker, or if the Surfy-man might tame them somehow? I think that's something you can only determine by trying it out.

Good luck!

[fusejaz]

Hi,
You could try out the UAD Showtime Amp(based on a '64 Showman) vst if you use a DAW, just to potentially get an idea of the sounds available.
Sounds good with a ES-335!

and there appears to be a way to do a free demo:
UAD Showtime &#39;64 Tube Amp – Universal Audio

[MelodiousThunk]

@andrew: Thanks for the information. Very interesting.

@213Cobro: They have been available for separate purchase on the site. Whoever said otherwise earlier in the thread was mistaken.

@starjasmin: I’ve owned vintage tube gear for most of my life, and I’ve run into many issues with varying levels of failure. A few years ago, I sold off a decent-sized collection of vintage amps, mainly because I had pretty much stopped playing guitar. When I did play, it was mostly acoustic. I’ve slowly been getting back into it. All I have left is a Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier, which a friend will most likely be buying in a couple of weeks, and a Fender 2x12” cab. I traded the Super-Sonic head away years ago. I digress. Solid-state equipment has improved so much that, in most cases, I’d actually prefer to go that route. That said, today I played a new Carr Sportsman that sounded absolutely fantastic (I’m trying to convince myself not to buy it!). I no longer have any interest in searching for vintage amps in decent condition, getting them serviced, and then continuing to maintain them. I understand what comes with asking for opinions on the internet, and I understand the limitations, but I believe a lot can still be gained.
Edit: I just realized I should’ve mentioned that I’ve actually heard a SurfyMan in person before. I saw “Surfer Joe” (Lorenzo), one of the Surfy Industries guys, playing with his band in a very small bar. That experience confirmed for me that the SurfyMan really nails the Showman sound. I’ve just never tried playing jazz through a Showman myself (or have heard anyone else do so) so I wasn’t sure whether it can produce a good jazz tone.

@LesB3: Thanks for conveying your experience with the SurfyMan. And yes, my cab is loaded with Vintage 30s.

@fusejaz: I agree that the UAD Showtime Amp makes a decent jazz amp (I own the UAD Paradise Guitar Suite). But the Showtime is based on a blackface Showman.

[MelodiousThunk]

While replying to responses above, I realized I should’ve mentioned that I’ve actually heard a SurfyMan in person before. I saw “Surfer Joe” (Lorenzo), one of the Surfy Industries guys, playing with his band in a very small bar. That experience confirmed for me that the SurfyMan really nails the Showman sound. I’ve just never tried playing jazz through a Showman myself (or have heard anyone else do so) so I wasn’t sure whether a Showman can produce a good jazz tone. Basically, in my head, if a Showman equals a good jazz tone, then a SurfyMan should also deliver a good jazz tone.

[TF]

Joe Pass toured with his guitar and a D.I. box.

Decades ago, I saw Joe Pass play using a DI box into a PA, in a small club. Unfortunately, the PA was a Shure Vocal Master, not widely known for its beautiful tone. Mr. Pass played brilliantly, but the sound was scratchy, tinny, very like a bad AM radio. I wanted to go home and get my Music Man combo for him.