Why your recordings may not sound exactly like your guitar...

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

nshsi, I just think you are comparing apples to oranges. As to what would be apples to apples, I'm not sure, but it certainly isn't an iPad 16 to $200 price range handheld recorders.

Lots of comparative reviews to be found....
Best Digital Voice Recorders | Tested & Ranked
32-bit Field Recorders Comparison

I was comparing a $220 Tascam to a $220 Zoom. After doing that, I threw in a $250 iPad and my iPhone because so many forum members record their guitars with them.

As the sound from all differed, and none was close to accurate, they’re all apples.

[Mick-7]

I was comparing a $220 Tascam to a $220 Zoom. After doing that, I threw in a $250 iPad and my iPhone because so many forum members record their guitars with them.

As the sound from all differed, and none was close to accurate, they’re all apples.

Still, the iPhone is an outlier in that equation, and at 5 times the price of the others, it shouldn't be surprising that its recording quality is superior to them. T'would make more sense to compare them to an iPhone 11 or 12.

Did you use an external mic with the iPad?

[DawgBone]

Still, the iPhone is an outlier in that equation, and at 5 times the price of the others, it shouldn't be surprising that its recording quality is superior to them. T'would make more sense to compare them to an iPhone 11 or 12.

Did you use an external mic with the iPad?

If I recall correctly the I-phone 7 was about $800 brand new so I don't see how your suggestion to use an 11 or 12 makes any more sense than your criticism of his comparison since those are refurbished phones that were still very expensive when they were new.

[Mick-7]

If I recall correctly the I-phone 7 was about $800 brand new so I don't see how your suggestion to use an 11 or 12 makes any more sense than your criticism of his comparison since those are refurbished phones that were still very expensive when they were new.

Well, I was talking about the current prices for used iPhones, looks like you'd have go back more than 10 years to find anything under $400.
iPhone Original Prices: The Launch Price of Every Model, From the Original iPhone to the iPhone 17 Pro Max

All the phones with good audio recorders are expensive:
Best Phone for Musicians Who Record with Their Phone (Top Field Recording Phones)

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Did you use an external mic with the iPad?

No. My first comparison was of the 4 devices used with their internal mics (the way most people use them).

Now I’m in the process of comparing their preamps and A-D converters using the same external mic for all. Since an XLR mic will not sound right into a high impedance input through an adapter to an unbalanced 1/8” plug, I’ll have to use an unbalanced mic. I’ll use one of my Sony electret condensers (very good mics, for those who don’t know them).

Each hookup is different (lightning connector on iPad, USB-C on iPhone, 1/8” on Zoom, 1/4” on TASCAM). I have to find my adapters and hope to get it done by the end of the week.

[Archie]

I think you've missed my point. I'm chasing accuracy in recording, not any particular sound.

This discussion has nothing at all to do with the objective sound of the guitar. It's about the accuracy and consistency of audio recordings of guitars made with various commonly used devices. Self-made audio clips and videos abound on this and every other such website. Many guitars have been sold on the basis of a recording captured with an iPhone. There must be at least a dozen posts a day on this forum alone about how much someone likes or dislikes the sound of a guitar. These judgments are being made without knowing how closely that recording captured the true sound of the instrument. What I've shown in the experiment described in post 1 is that some well known and commonly used devices fail to capture truly accurate audio recordings of acoustic guitars.

While recording my 17" carved archtop to compare its sound to that of an L-5C on a YT video, I discovered that two of my devices (TASCAM DR-40x audio recorder and Zoom Q2n-4K video recorder) reproduced distinctly different tones from the same guitar despite similar technical specs. So I set about to determine how much and in what ways the sound of the same guitar differed when captured by the most commonly used types of recording devices. Even more important to me is how and by how much the sound of the guitar differs from the recordings. Liking what you hear in a recording is useless if that recording is inaccurate.

I was more than a little shocked and disappointed to hear how different my Eastman 810CE7 sounds when recorded by my iPhone, my iPad, my TASCAM audio recorder, and my Zoom video recorder. We all need to know this, because many of us base judgments and buying decisions on what they hear on this forum. But it turns out that what we hear in a posted recording may differ greatly from the actual sound of the guitar or amp, if that recording was made in an uncontrolled environment with a consumer grade device (which almost all are). None of the takes being compared was heard through the device that recorded it. I loaded the raw recorded files (edited only to trim leading and trailing dead space and normalize for volume) directly into Soundcloud and YT (depending on the device that made them) and made all listening comparisons on my monitor system (SMSL balanced DAC driving a pair of JBL 305s).

Both audio and video professional and high grade audiophile equipment is much more consistent and accurate than mobile phones and $200 gizmos. IME even the better "prosumer" stuff from Scarlett, Focusrite, Presonus, MOTU, M-Audio etc is much more consistent when used with decent mics (eg SM57 or 58, Sennheiser 609 or 906, etc). But now that I've uncovered the discrepancy in iStuff etc, I'll test my better equipment to see if it's as reliably accurate as I think (and hope and believe) it is. After this experiment, I'm wondering how my beloved ART Tube MP mic preamp compares to those in the devices I just tested. For about 30 years, I've loved the ART for its natural sound qualities, lack of noise, and ease of use. Now I need to find out if I've been right all this time.

Whether it's an L-5 or a $100 plywood flat top doesn't matter at all, for purposes of this discussion. What's at issue is only how closely recordings of it come to its true sound. Now that I know how different the same guitar sounds when recorded on an iPhone, an iPad, a TASCAM DR-40x, and a Zoom Q2n-4K, I'll never again make a judgment about an instrument on the basis of a recording unless I know that the recording is accurate.

Attachment 129918

I think you're missing my point. How do you know what’s accurate, are you talking about relying solely on wave analysis or some other digital software, or are you relying on your ears and subjective feelings?

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I think you're missing my point. How do you know what’s accurate, are you talking about relying solely on wave analysis or some other digital software, or are you relying on your ears and subjective feelings?

Ears alone. With the guitar in hand for immediate comparison, I don’t think it’s hard to determine that a recording is close to accurate or far from it. When comparing several that are close to each other, it’s more difficult to create a hierarchy of accuracy among them. But most of us would have no trouble saying whether or not each is in the ballpark.

Similarly, I think most of us could reliably identify those that are close to each other and those that differ a lot. Details beyond that are irrelevant for this discussion.

Once hearing it next to the guitar itself, I doubt that anyone with serviceable hearing would disagree that the Zoom recording is not accurate. It’s much too bright, lacks depth in the bass, and makes the 810 sound like a cheap plywood guitar. The TASCAM lacks clarity and presence - the highs are clearly deficient. The frequency spectrum of the track shows this very clearly in comparison with the other three.

My original question could be rephrased to this: which commonly used devices for recording our guitars are “accurate enough” to give us a realistic sense of how they sound? Can we rely on those recordings to make buying decisions etc? Beyond this, the question can be further extended to the other hardware (external mics, preamps etc) the software, the settings etc.

I suspect that there are a few setups that are pretty close, and more that are clearly not very close. The rest are in the middle. I’d like to know which are which, especially in the “pretty close” group. Wouldn’t you?

[Jimmy Mack]

Quote: (quoting myself)

"I've had a day....setting up to do a recording. Yesterday I concentrated on getting the amp to sound the way i want it to (in the final mix). Today I set up mikes, and then moved them, and then changed them, and then blended them, and then changed them out, and then moved them.
I want to capture the fat L5 CES tone that I know, and get the fatness that the pros get, with some nice low mids and sweet singing hi's (without "Icepick").
But what I hear out of the amp doesn't record on my DR03. So I keep moving mics, and re-recording. Driving my wife a little crazy while I play "sound engineer" in the bedroom.
Been thru this before, and I know that when I get "IT", it'll all be worth it.
I'm trying to keep it simple. Guitar, compressor, amp, 2 mics, and DA recorder. Headphones ??????
The final mix and master will tell all."

Making progress daily. I finally determined that my headphones were throwing me off course! Things were quiet and all high end, but not shrill or out of the ordinary - or so I thought. I am so used to the sound of the cans I've been using that I just assumed that they were "honest". But not loving the sound I was recording, I tried other cans and then went to GC to audition a new set. Well, like any instrument, I compared 3 new sets to my old ones. And without spending a lot of $$ I have new ears, and the things I recorded already are sounding so much better, and FAT.
Just a little advice. Many of you already know this. Sorry, carry on.