Amp for low A-tuned 7-string

[nbs2005]

Hi all,

Looking for advice on amplification for my seven string guitars (PRS SE and couple of acoustics) all with the seventh string tuned to A. My current powered speaker (small 6.5 driver) not surprisingly has a hard time reproducing the low notes and is really weak with the low A at 55 hZ. Playing through my computer using Reaper EQ into an older Bose iPod dock works OK for home use but want something for playing out.

What are folks using to amplify your 7 strings? I play solo or with one or two other instruments at most, no bass. I'm leaning toward a powered speaker/mini PA type unit. Appreciate you thoughts.

Thanks,

Jeff

[SierraTango]

I'm certain forum member Never Should Have Sold it will chime in here at some point. Very knowledgeable guy.

I'm going to share my experience. Back when I played 7, due to Jimmy Bruno's suggestion, I went down that path. I had a Ibanez AF207, and later a Eastman 805 7. I had auditioned a bunch of amps at NAMM and other vendors, and the amp that worked best for my situation was the Shertler Unico.

It's a very versatile amp that also functions as a P.A. 180 Bi-amped watts, four channels with phantom power, 8" speaker and tweeter. It had has no problem handling the low A. In fact I loaned to a upright player and he loved it. I've done at least hundreds of gigs with it. I put it on the market recently as I went with a EV Evolve and a Koch Jupiter Jr for my rig. I did go back to 6 strings and my Benedetto Cremona with a Bartolini floater sounds superb through the Unico as well. It might be a bit Hi-Fi will only do cleans-I don't use any pedals so can't comment.

I don't have a dog in this fight however I listed my Unico in the classifieds of this forum for $500 plus shipping. It's also on Reverb:

Just a moment...

[Gitterbug]

Anything loaded with a Celestion BN12-300S should be OK. It's actually a guitar speaker with an extended bass range, nominally to 50 Hz but in practice a bit below. I've used dozens on my TOOB 12B bass cabs, which work for jazz guitar, too.

[Stringswinger]

Any decent amp head with a Raezer's Edge Stealth 12 will do the 7 string quite well. That cabinet was designed for Jimmy Bruno when he was a 7 string player.

[Cunamara]

Anything loaded with a Celestion BN12-300S should be OK. It's actually a guitar speaker with an extended bass range, nominally to 50 Hz but in practice a bit below. I've used dozens on my TOOB 12B bass cabs, which work for jazz guitar, too.

I have a TOOB BG+ which has a 6.5 inch driver in it, which is a bass speaker, driven by a DV Mark Raw Dawg 250. When my upright bass player comes over to my house, he uses that amp and cab and sounds great. Given that goes down to E below low A, I think it would fully easily handle a seven string guitar.

[Christian Miller]

I always find AERs have very good low end response on things like the Boss OC-3
So it would probably work well with a low tuned bass string.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AllanAllen]

I'm leaning toward a powered speaker/mini PA type unit.

QSC K series are the best powered speaker I’ve heard/used.

[mikeSF]

I play mostly solo guitar with walking bass and though a 10" combo amp is adequate, the lowest 7 notes are not nearly as musical as from a similarly outfitted 12" combo. Presently, I've got a range of jazz amps including Henriksen combo, Acoustic Image(head)/Redstone(cab), and Magnatone(w 2x12s), and if I'm going to be walking, I bring a 12".

[Cunamara]

QSC K series are the best powered speaker I’ve heard/used.

I've played through one using a DI several times and liked the sound a lot. They ain't cheap, but you get what you pay for.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I'm certain forum member Never Should Have Sold it will chime in here at some point.

Thanks, ST! I have a little experience with this that I'm happy to share.

I've been exclusively 7 string for about 33 years. There were no affordable archtop 7s when I made the move, so I started with an arched solid body ESP hardtail (smooth horns, too!) that I still have. When Ibanez brought out the AF207 in 1997, I got one. It's still in use, but now with a Benedetto B7 pickup and a gorgeous TP Steve Holst made for me. I've also acquired 3 carved archtops (14", 16", and 17") to go with my 2 solids (the ESP and a mid '90s Epi Les Paul 7 that I bought new from Sam Ash after it hung on their wall for over a year).

I started playing solo as a teenager, and I thought that big fat bass made solo jazz guitar sound somehow better. I played a well used 175 through a 4x10 Magnatone, then Ampeg B15N for a decade, followed by Twins, Boogies, SWRs, Bassmen, Phil Jones, Genz-Benz, and other big boomy bass amps. When I went 7, the boom was just too much and I realized that I was chasing the wrong thing for a nice, natural jazz sound in the low end. I now realize that what I like best is a 7th string (low A, of course) that sounds just like the other 6 but lower in pitch. So my reference is clean, clear notes from all strings all the way down with no boom, flab, or thump.

Believe it or not, I'm getting this from 6.5" to 10" speakers. If you're happy with separate head and cabinet, the little Toob Metro BG+ is remarkably accurate down low. I power mine with a few small heads and a few more serious ones. The TC Electronics BAM200 (which is a bass amp and has no reverb) pumps about 125W into 8 Ohms and sounds fantastic through a Metro BG+. I do like a little reverb, so I also use a DV Mark EG250 - it's a bit more powerful, and it has a small tube in the preamp that really sounds amazingly warm and rich. Here's my 16" astman Jazz Elite through the BAM and Metro:



My Blu 6 also brings out the best form the 7th. All of my guitars sound consistent from low A on up through it, and the lowest octave sounds like a guitar rather than a thumpy bass. The Blu's bass response is sensitive to position re floor and walls. Put it in a corner and you get a signficant (6+ dB) boost at the bottom that makes me turn down the low freq EQ if there's no other place to put the amp. Away from walls but on the floor, it's pretty flat with a very natural sound. On a chair or stool, the bass is a hair less prominent. But the port in the bottom will interact with the top of the chair or stool to reflect and diffuse the bass as the designer intended. You can position it for best sound at any venue. For purity of 7th string tone from the lowest frets, I don't think you can do better. Here's the AF207 through the Blu:



Here's my Eastman El Rey (carved 14" archtop with set KA) through the Blu at a restaurant gig. The vocalist likes a bass-like line, so I put the Blu on the floor in the corner behind us. I set it for a little more flab than I like, but I think the 7th string still sounds like a guitar and not a P-bass:



Evans amps are excellent for 7s. Ron Eschete has used them for many years, and Jimmy Bruno usd them for a while in his relatively brief 7 string period. I've had and loved both the 150W 1x12 and the 200W 1x12. The small Phil Jones Bass combos are also great - I had a Cub and a Briefcase for a few years while I was exploring the post-12" world. John PIzzrelli has used a lot of amps (e.g. JazzKat with an 8" and the 12" ZT model) and seems to sound like him through any of them. I believe his father used a Vibrolux for his 7 for many years. This makes sense, since it's not quite as bass heavy as the 1x12s and other mulitple driver Fender amps. I have an early '70s Twin and Princeton, and they'e both OK for a 7. But the BF and SF series both pushed the bass too hard for my taste - there's a tubbiness to it that I loved when I was 16 but have finally outgrown. Most traditional open back tube combos are a bit flabby in the bottom, which makes a 7th string sound different from the other wound strings.

For a higher power amp, I love my Quilter 202 head in its Block Dock 12HD (loaded with the Celestion BN12-300 that Gitterbug suggests). Again, the 7th string is clean and clear. The BlockDock cabinets have been discontinued, but the Quilter Mach 3 12" combo is every bit as fine for 7s and even a little more versatile. The Quilter 202 (ToneBlock or OD - I have both, and their clean tones are virtually identical) drives Toobs very well too.

Stringswinger's right on with the Raezer's Edge. I bought a Bass 10 from Rich Raezer soon after he began selling them, and it's still one of my favorite speakers. It was tailor made for a 7, and any of my amps drives it to glorious guitar tone with any of my guitars. When I bought it over 20 years ago, I stil had one foot in that "bigger bass is better bass" camp and bought the Bass 10 instead of the Stealth 10 because it was a bass cab. TBH, the Stealth 10 sounds every bit as good as my cab with a 7 stering except maybe at "goes to 11" volume. But don't sell the smaller cabs short for a 7 - the RE twin 8 cabs are excellent too. I haven't tried one of their 6" cabs, so I can't comment on them. Here's the AF207 through the RE Bass 10 driven by the DV Mark EG250:



There are a lot of wonderful cabs out there now for 7 string guitars. Check out RevSound for fabulous, light cabs. David Luke builds them all himself up in the woods of New Hampshire. He made me a rear ported 8" bass cab that's a 12" tweed covered cube weighing about 11 pounds. Driven by any of my little amps, it's simply a killer.

I'm not a fan of powered speakers, PA or sound reinforcement systems for guitar. I back a lot of vocalists, and one brought his Bose line array to a gig. He insisted that I try it, so I ran the guitar through it. It was unnatural - boomy, boxy, and too bright all at the same time. I've tried powere speakers, but I haven't found one that lets my guitars sound like themselves. Schertlers are great amplifiers - they're beautifully made and sound wonderful for vocals and mic'ed or piezo'ed guitar. But I don't like them for pure jazz guitar tone. They're very popular with the buskers in Bath (UK), which is where I've heard them the most. I think they also make traditional guitar combo amps, but I've never seen one. All the ones I've encountered were basically powered speakers with built in mixers.

Altos are great powered speakers at a lower price point. I have a 150W Chinese built powered speaker with an 8" driver and a tweeter that cost me about $200 on Amazon a few yeras ago. It's not far behind the Altos etc, and it's easy to use. But none of these comes close to the great sound from a Henriksen, A Quilter, an Evans, etc. AER is also fine equipment. I have limited experience with their stuff except in showrooms, but with an Eastman carved 7, the one I tried at Guitars 'n Jazzz sounded pretty fine.

I hope this helps.

[jasguitar]

Evans Amps are built for amplifying everything, and are absolutely the best I’ve heard for 7 string jazz guitar.

[nbs2005]

Thanks everyone for all the feedback. Unsurprisingly it’s a lot to take in ;-). The TOOB options are intriguing, would love to try those out.

[Rustic]

I have a Henriksen with a 12" speaker that I find perfect for both high and low A notes. Unfortunately they have been discontinued but with some diligence they can be found...

[Tom Karol]

Yes, definitely look for a used Henriksen Jazz Amp 112!

[Zigracer]

Here's my favs for the 7 string with a low A with #1 being my most favorite:

1. My absolute favorite amp for the 7 string - and maybe my fav amp altogether is the Fender 59 Bassman LTD. The Bassman just sounds so good and clean at any volume levels I can imagine playing it at. The standard guitar range sounds great for any type of music IMHO. And well, it was originally designed to handle the bass notes - nuff said. The four speakers just add another dimension and envelope the listener in sound, without having to be too loud.

2. Just took delivery of my second Quilter Mach 3 last week and I shouldn't have gotten rid of the first. There was nothing wrong with the first. Long story about A/B-ing it against the Fender Tonemaster Twin and a problem that sounded like clipping while looping some parts at a R&R/pop gig that was really caused by my being an idiot. The Mach 3 handles the entire sonic range of the 7 string and sounds fantastic.

3. Fender Tonemaster Twin. Mine's now for sale because I'd rather have the Mach 3, but the 7 string and really everything else sound great through it. I think the two speakers, like the four in the Bassman add another dimension to the sound.

4. Genzler Acoustic Array Pro. All of my jazz archtops sound great through this amp, and it is perfectly suited to small room gigs with one channel assigned for the guitar and the other for vocals. Because it is an acoustic amp, it is designed to handle the full tonal range from a bass on upward. The limitation on the amp is that it doesn't sound that great for R&R type applications unless you put an amp emulator or use amp and cab sims in front of the amp. Great piece of gear.

5. I have a Fender Princeton Reissue with the 12 inch speaker. The 7 string sounds pretty good through it in my music room, but I really haven't tried it at higher volumes than I practice at. I don't know if the bass would sound flubby.

6. I have a Victoria Execulux, which has a similar circuit to a Deluxe Reverb, but seems to kick a little more a$$ in a rock or blues situation. I haven't spent much time with the 7 string and the Victoria, probably because the other amps check off all the boxes. I did use my former Deluxe Reverb Reissue when I first started playing the 7. It was fine, but since I had the Bassman, I stuck with that for the 7. I sold the Deluxe to get the Tonemaster Twin.

Hope this helps.

[Zigracer]

Thanks, ST! I have a little experience with this that I'm happy to share.

I've been exclusively 7 string for about 33 years. There were no affordable archtop 7s when I made the move, so I started with an arched solid body ESP hardtail (smooth horns, too!) that I still have. When Ibanez brought out the AF207 in 1997, I got one. It's still in use, but now with a Benedetto B7 pickup and a gorgeous TP Steve Holst made for me. I've also acquired 3 carved archtops (14", 16", and 17") to go with my 2 solids (the ESP and a mid '90s Epi Les Paul 7 that I bought new from Sam Ash after it hung on their wall for over a year).

I started playing solo as a teenager, and I thought that big fat bass made solo jazz guitar sound somehow better. I played a well used 175 through a 4x10 Magnatone, then Ampeg B15N for a decade, followed by Twins, Boogies, SWRs, Bassmen, Phil Jones, Genz-Benz, and other big boomy bass amps. When I went 7, the boom was just too much and I realized that I was chasing the wrong thing for a nice, natural jazz sound in the low end. I now realize that what I like best is a 7th string (low A, of course) that sounds just like the other 6 but lower in pitch. So my reference is clean, clear notes from all strings all the way down with no boom, flab, or thump.

Believe it or not, I'm getting this from 6.5" to 10" speakers. If you're happy with separate head and cabinet, the little Toob Metro BG+ is remarkably accurate down low. I power mine with a few small heads and a few more serious ones. The TC Electronics BAM200 (which is a bass amp and has no reverb) pumps about 125W into 8 Ohms and sounds fantastic through a Metro BG+. I do like a little reverb, so I also use a DV Mark EG250 - it's a bit more powerful, and it has a small tube in the preamp that really sounds amazingly warm and rich. Here's my 16" astman Jazz Elite through the BAM and Metro:



My Blu 6 also brings out the best form the 7th. All of my guitars sound consistent from low A on up through it, and the lowest octave sounds like a guitar rather than a thumpy bass. The Blu's bass response is sensitive to position re floor and walls. Put it in a corner and you get a signficant (6+ dB) boost at the bottom that makes me turn down the low freq EQ if there's no other place to put the amp. Away from walls but on the floor, it's pretty flat with a very natural sound. On a chair or stool, the bass is a hair less prominent. But the port in the bottom will interact with the top of the chair or stool to reflect and diffuse the bass as the designer intended. You can position it for best sound at any venue. For purity of 7th string tone from the lowest frets, I don't think you can do better. Here's the AF207 through the Blu:



Here's my Eastman El Rey (carved 14" archtop with set KA) through the Blu at a restaurant gig. The vocalist likes a bass-like line, so I put the Blu on the floor in the corner behind us. I set it for a little more flab than I like, but I think the 7th string still sounds like a guitar and not a P-bass:



Evans amps are excellent for 7s. Ron Eschete has used them for many years, and Jimmy Bruno usd them for a while in his relatively brief 7 string period. I've had and loved both the 150W 1x12 and the 200W 1x12. The small Phil Jones Bass combos are also great - I had a Cub and a Briefcase for a few years while I was exploring the post-12" world. John PIzzrelli has used a lot of amps (e.g. JazzKat with an 8" and the 12" ZT model) and seems to sound like him through any of them. I believe his father used a Vibrolux for his 7 for many years. This makes sense, since it's not quite as bass heavy as the 1x12s and other mulitple driver Fender amps. I have an early '70s Twin and Princeton, and they'e both OK for a 7. But the BF and SF series both pushed the bass too hard for my taste - there's a tubbiness to it that I loved when I was 16 but have finally outgrown. Most traditional open back tube combos are a bit flabby in the bottom, which makes a 7th string sound different from the other wound strings.

For a higher power amp, I love my Quilter 202 head in its Block Dock 12HD (loaded with the Celestion BN12-300 that Gitterbug suggests). Again, the 7th string is clean and clear. The BlockDock cabinets have been discontinued, but the Quilter Mach 3 12" combo is every bit as fine for 7s and even a little more versatile. The Quilter 202 (ToneBlock or OD - I have both, and their clean tones are virtually identical) drives Toobs very well too.

Stringswinger's right on with the Raezer's Edge. I bought a Bass 10 from Rich Raezer soon after he began selling them, and it's still one of my favorite speakers. It was tailor made for a 7, and any of my amps drives it to glorious guitar tone with any of my guitars. When I bought it over 20 years ago, I stil had one foot in that "bigger bass is better bass" camp and bought the Bass 10 instead of the Stealth 10 because it was a bass cab. TBH, the Stealth 10 sounds every bit as good as my cab with a 7 stering except maybe at "goes to 11" volume. But don't sell the smaller cabs short for a 7 - the RE twin 8 cabs are excellent too. I haven't tried one of their 6" cabs, so I can't comment on them. Here's the AF207 through the RE Bass 10 driven by the DV Mark EG250:



There are a lot of wonderful cabs out there now for 7 string guitars. Check out RevSound for fabulous, light cabs. David Luke builds them all himself up in the woods of New Hampshire. He made me a rear ported 8" bass cab that's a 12" tweed covered cube weighing about 11 pounds. Driven by any of my little amps, it's simply a killer.

I'm not a fan of powered speakers, PA or sound reinforcement systems for guitar. I back a lot of vocalists, and one brought his Bose line array to a gig. He insisted that I try it, so I ran the guitar through it. It was unnatural - boomy, boxy, and too bright all at the same time. I've tried powere speakers, but I haven't found one that lets my guitars sound like themselves. Schertlers are great amplifiers - they're beautifully made and sound wonderful for vocals and mic'ed or piezo'ed guitar. But I don't like them for pure jazz guitar tone. They're very popular with the buskers in Bath (UK), which is where I've heard them the most. I think they also make traditional guitar combo amps, but I've never seen one. All the ones I've encountered were basically powered speakers with built in mixers.

Altos are great powered speakers at a lower price point. I have a 150W Chinese built powered speaker with an 8" driver and a tweeter that cost me about $200 on Amazon a few yeras ago. It's not far behind the Altos etc, and it's easy to use. But none of these comes close to the great sound from a Henriksen, A Quilter, an Evans, etc. AER is also fine equipment. I have limited experience with their stuff except in showrooms, but with an Eastman carved 7, the one I tried at Guitars 'n Jazzz sounded pretty fine.

I hope this helps.

I agree about the Bose. I have one and use it for most solo R&R/pop gigs. I use a Fender Tonemaster Pro (used to use a Helix) with amp and cab sims for the electric guitar, but I'm never really happy with the sound. No one's ever complained and some people have said they liked the sound, but I just don't care for it. I continue to use it, because it handles the vocal and acoustic guitar well and I don't have to bring yet another piece of gear.

[Sleeko]

In this video, Jimmy Bruno is using what I use; a Fender Accoustisonic Junior. Nice warm stereo sound using two 8" speakers.

[Cunamara]

Unsurprisingly it’s a lot to take in ;-).

If you ask 10 guitarists a question, you'll get 11 opinions in response.

[rpjazzguitar]

Following Never's advice is probably the thing to do. His stuff sounds great and he's playing 7.

But, I'll add this much. I tried the Blu and found it icy or sterile (hard to put into words). I preferred the Little Jazz in A/B comparison. The Bud/Blu are louder, but that wasn't a big advantage in my applications. This puts me in a small minority, but I'm not the only one.

I tried the Bose S1 and, like a lot of people, found the bass boomy. Moreover it's a 2 band EQ amp so it was hard to dial out. There are a bunch of undocumented presets but they aren't at all easy to use. If you don't like the one you're on, how do you decide which one to change to?

I tried the Evolve 8 and didn't love the sound. To be fair, I didn't try the parametric EQ.

I then ordered an Alto which arrived in pieces. I returned it (no hassle) to GC and bought a JBL Eon One Compact. 6 band parametric EQ on each channel and 8 bands on the master. Reverb and some effects I don't use. Controlled from my phone, which has worked reliably. Voice sounds great and I can get my guitar sound from it.

I've been satisfied with it. It doesn't weight much, it's capable of being what I think of as loud, it has a full mixer with a lot of control of parameters, runs on battery for far longer than any of my gigs. And, as I said, I can get my sound from it. I play a semi and use a processed tone a lot of the time. This is not what Never does, so it's an apples to rollerskates comparison.

[EricC]

We don’t use a seven string per se but have a baritone tuned a to a, so pretty close to your situation as far as range is concerned. I do think that the little speaker is a lot of the issue as well possibly whatever is powering it. We’ve recorded it through a lot of different setups with a ‘66 bandmaster into an efficient 12” being our preferred. That said, I got really good tones out of it through an AC4 and a nice 10” speaker.

I would look at something with at least a 10” speaker and also watch the bass in the eq. Just because it is low, doesn’t mean that you want more bass present usually. I would also, in the meantime, just try cutting the bass on the eq and se how that helps. With the baritone, we want clarity- the warmth comes naturally.

[tonnie]

Ron Eschete had an amp specialy designed for him, an Evans combo. I own one and use it all the times!
Tonnie van der Heide
Bergen, Norway