Gibson ES-225 vs. ES-175

[Hogtown Fatty]

Something about the ES-225 I've liked from afar for nearly 20 years now... I recall seeing a blonde/natural double pickup one with Bigsby back then and being absolutely smitten- was around $5k then.
But I recall from the very onset (of my getting "into" them) people suggesting to steer clear of the model, I honestly can't recall exactly why now... but time and time again, people always advised me to avoid that model.
Despite that, I always really liked the looks and the idea of the 225...
Anyways, more recently, my 225 lust has had a resurgence as Julian Lage, the stud, has made great use of one in his recent videos. Seems to be his new favourite. And honestly, it's the best he's ever sounded, to my ears. Also, his particular specimen is stunning and in museum condition.
So I'm again very seriously considering one- maybe note a blonde, can't justify the difference-, but am wondering what I'd be missing out by not going the ES-175 route instead; are those really so vastly superior? Is there anyone who prefers the lowly 225 over the legendary 175?
I know, we all know, the 175 has been on every legendary jazz recording ever...

Fwiw, I own an old 1960 ES-330 that I absolutely adore- it's my all-time favourite vintage guitar, preferring it to much more expensive ones I've owned (including multiple original 50's gold top Les Paul's)... I know they're not the same, but feel the 330 gives me a good enough indication of what 225 life might be like (I've somehow never played one)? I am looking at a dual pickup model by the way. I'm one of the rare ones who actually likes the single awkward middle pickups- their sound is unique; very "sweet", with lots of overtones and a great thing happening in the mids. But yeah, for this, would go twin pickup, ideally just like Lage's. Btw, I noticed his has the 175 style tail piece- was that fairly rare on those?

I know it seems I'm fairly made up for the 225, but can easily be swayed to go 175. I do like the 225's slimmer body.

Your thoughts/findings/observations on the matter, please.

[Tal_175]

If you already have a great example of an ES 330, I think an ES 175 would be a more interesting option for you than a two pickup ES 225. It seems to me that the difference between a ES 330 and a two pickup ES225 is mostly cosmetic?

[Sleeko]

Life's short, get what you crave. That particular model was made for a reason and if that's what you love, you're the reason. There must have been something why people kept telling you to avoid this model. Maybe the original bridge/ tailpiece combo? Anyway I'm glad I'm not a "People".

[Archie]

The problem with a lot of those thinline models is that they have an inherent design flaw.
The body is too thin and this causes them to warp. The neck block gets pushed down by the strings and so the end of the fretboard ends up pointing down towards the body.
This is often confused as a technician over sanding the end of the fretboard whilst doing a refret but it’s not.
The weakest part on any Archtop is the waist and the cutaway. A cutaway seriously undermines the integrity of the body.
This does not happen on all of them so the best thing you can do is ask for a side shot of the neck and body join.
also a picture of the bridge.
The difficult part is that even if the neck angle looks good, it can also be that the body is folding at the waist so although the neck angle is good, the bottom of the guitar is lifting up and again, this causes there to be no room for bridge adjustment and the finger board will be angling downwards.

If the end of the fingerboard is still pointing up and the bridge has not been sanded down on the base and has room to be lowered, it should be fine.

[Gitfiddler]

ES175's are a in a class of their own in my view. Fortunately they are plentiful and one has to merely wait for the right one to pop up for sale.

However, if you're in the market for an ES225 due to its slimmer body, take a look at this Heritage H525 listed on Reverb. They are one of the more rare Heritage models, but my personal favorite, due to its tonal versatility.

Just a moment...

[John A.]

But I recall from the very onset (of my getting "into" them) people suggesting to steer clear of the model, I honestly can't recall exactly why now... but time and time again, people always advised me to avoid that model.

My guess is the tailpiece is the main reason. The Les Paul/ES-295 style tailpiece is not great -- dicey intonation, and kind of rickety/finicky. Also, ES-225's are also kind of not quite hollow, but not quite semi hollow because of the small center block. If you like 'em, you like 'em, but I'd guess a lot more people are interested in either a fully hollow guitar or a 335 style (that certainly the case for me).

Despite that, I always really liked the looks and the idea of the 225...
Anyways, more recently, my 225 lust has had a resurgence as Julian Lage, the stud, has made great use of one in his recent videos. Seems to be his new favourite.

I hear you. I bought a goldtop Les Paul with P90s because of his video of "Emily" (although it's a bargain '50s Tribute, not a real '50s goldie).
.

And honestly, it's the best he's ever sounded, to my ears. Also, his particular specimen is stunning and in museum condition.
So I'm again very seriously considering one- maybe note a blonde, can't justify the difference-, but am wondering what I'd be missing out by not going the ES-175 route instead; are those really so vastly superior? Is there anyone who prefers the lowly 225 over the legendary 175?
I know, we all know, the 175 has been on every legendary jazz recording ever...

They're different, and it really comes down to preference. I happen to know a guy who's 225-obsessed -- he has a few and only plays them. So yes, some people do prefer them. They weren't made for very long and are pretty uncommon, so regardless of preference 175's are much more common, and are a different sound.

Fwiw, I own an old 1960 ES-330 that I absolutely adore- it's my all-time favourite vintage guitar, preferring it to much more expensive ones I've owned (including multiple original 50's gold top Les Paul's)... I know they're not the same, but feel the 330 gives me a good enough indication of what 225 life might be like (I've somehow never played one)?

The 330s I've tried struck me as somewhat brighter and less mid-rangey than the 225's I've tried. I suspect the block inside a 225 makes the sound shade a little bit more toward the 335 sound than a 330. But I haven't tried many of either, so grains of salt. Probably best to play one before buying.

I am looking at a dual pickup model by the way. I'm one of the rare ones who actually likes the single awkward middle pickups- their sound is unique; very "sweet", with lots of overtones and a great thing happening in the mids. But yeah, for this, would go twin pickup, ideally just like Lage's.

The 1-pickup 225 strikes me as similar sound to the middle position on a strat. I like that option on a strat or other 3-pickup guitars, but I wouldn't want a guitar that had only that sound. I would find a guitar that lacks a neck pickup more or less useless for jazz. But if you like it, de gustibus yada yada.

Btw, I noticed his has the 175 style tail piece- was that fairly rare on those?

I think the later ones had a conventional floating bridge/tailpiece? I do know that some people replace the origina LP/295 style TP's (e.g., the 225 fan I know has done it on his). It strikes me as an improvement.

I know it seems I'm fairly made up for the 225, but can easily be swayed to go 175. I do like the 225's slimmer body. Your thoughts/findings/observations on the matter, please.

A 125TDC will give you the form factor of 225, with a sound that's much closer to a 175, maybe consider one of those?.

[andrew]

One thing I haven’t seen called out yet is the specific type of pickup. All 225s and practically all 330s (except for a very few Memphis examples) will have P90s, whereas the majority of the 175s are humbucker equipped. So there’s certainly a way to justify them being “different enough to have both” right there.

Personally, I have a P90 equipped 175 and think it’s the bee’s knees.

[powerwagonjohn]

I have had my 1959 ES225T for approx. 20 years. It has not folded up yet and still plays great with 12 gauge strings. The single pick up and LP tail piece gives it a unique feel and sound. I bought a SD custom shop staple pick up to try in my 225 but never installed it yet. I really enjoy the guitar as is.
Thanks John

[D.G.]

My experience between thinline vs “full-depth” arch tops (on the neck pup) is that thinlines tend to be more midrange focused. I’ve found it easy enough to make a tiny adjustment at the amp if desired.

And in many band contexts, having less bass than you think tends to sit better sonically.

[hidesert]

The ES225TD’s are fully hollow but also have a supplemental block of wood glued to the underside of the top. This reduces feedback at volume to a significant degree. I have a 1956 ES225TDN that came to me with a conventional Gibson archtop bridge, tuneomatic saddle, and trapeze tailpiece. This setup was actually what Gibson ultimately arrived at equipping the 225’s with from the factory in 1959, their final year. I have had 330’s and like this better.
175’s and 335’s are both great and provide their own unique applications.