Advice on ES-175 Copies

[scarstitch]

Hello, I'm new here.

I was looking for archtop guitars and came across two interesting models.

Both are ES-175 copies, one from Luxor and the other from Aztec.

Does anyone know anything about them?

Which one's "better" ?

Pictures: Imgur: The magic of the Internet

All help is appreciated

Greetings from Austria!

[Mick-7]

Welcome to the forum.

I know that both brands were made in Japan in the '70's, but I've only seen copies of solid body guitars with those names on them. I have a '70's "Cortez" brand Japanese copy of an ES-175, and it's well made. It had mediocre pickups though, which seems to be a common complaint of these copies.

You can't really judge from a description alone if those guitars are any good, because so little is known about them, you'd have to play them. I would not buy one online for that reason.

[GuyBoden]

There are many old forum threads on this topic, example "Who makes the Best ES175 Clone":

Here is an old forum thread:
Who Makes the Best ES-175 Clones?

[arnie65]

In my experience, the older Ibanez 2355 models are excellent copies of the Gibson ES175. The Tokai FA245, FA201, and the FA320 (single Pickup) are all great alternatives, with solid construction, and come close to the ES175 not only in construction and looks, but also in tone. However, these japanese models are getting more expensive every year. I'm seeing that as the ES175 gets pricier, so do the older japanese alternatives. If you are looking for something less expensive than the aforementioned, you might want to look at the Eastman 372, or some of the less pricy Ibanez models, however, the quality and tonality might be less closer to ES175.



Arnie...

[Aiq]

While not a direct copy I am enjoying the new to me Eastman AR371CE.

Under a grand too.

[Mick-7]

However, these japanese models are getting more expensive every year. I'm seeing that as the ES175 gets pricier, so do the older japanese alternatives.

Yes, but less so the more obscure brand names like my "Cortez."

Vintage Japanese guitar brands -- Kyowa Shokai | Claescaster

[2bornot2bop]

My money is on the ATC 105, a current day ES175 build. The company is better known as Archtop Tribute. Produced by Westville in Japan. They have a great reputation.

An ATC 105 is currently on Reverb for $1850. Won’t last long.



AT105 — Westville Guitars

[medblues]

Good old Epiphone ES-175 Premium if you can find it.

[Gitterbug]

I haven't owned a single Japanese ES-175 copy but believe that a huge numbers - maybe even more than original Gibsons - were built under various brand names by relatively few factories. I've recently had a close look at a "Shiro", treasured by a pro guitarist. I believe that Japanese craftsmanship, working culture and internal competition kept the quality on a consistently high level.

[deacon Mark]

My advice is probably worthless to you but I still throw this out. A real 175 is expensive but not out of world. Unless you are in some serious situation and money is super tight, I would simply get a real one. The reason being is that if a player really wants one give an honest shot and find one. Granted it may cost 3 to 5 times the amount of a copy but you have something it your hands different.

You buy a copy and it looks to me like Epi 175 copy cost around $1000. You can find a real one for maybe $3300-3800 depending. In the end you have the real deal and I would figure out how cut some expense and scape the money together. In the event you have to sell it for drastic reason later you have a real item and may turn out ahead.

[2bornot2bop]

Good old Epiphone ES-175 Premium if you can find it.

oh absolutely. I own one. But occasionally I wonder what a single humbucker would sound like.

[garybaldy]

I have a 70s Japanese copy by Sakura. But nothing fits like a glove like a real 175.

[Mick-7]

I haven't owned a single Japanese ES-175 copy but believe that a huge number - maybe even more than original Gibsons - were built under various brand names by relatively few factories. I've recently had a close look at a "Shiro", treasured by a pro guitarist. I believe that Japanese craftsmanship, working culture and internal competition kept the quality on a consistently high level.

The Japanese Yen is at a 36 year low (their bond market crashed this week), which is reflected in the prices of Japanese guitars now. For example, brand new ATC archtops are selling for $1300 to $1500 including tax [+ import fees] -- AT????/Full Hollow

[medblues]

oh absolutely. I own one. But occasionally I wonder what a single humbucker would sound like.

I vaguely remember a comparison stating one can't hear much difference even in the acoustic sound and electric sounds are identical between single pickup and two-pickup ones. I never compared them. I did compare mine to a couple of Gibson ES-175s and I found them almost identical. Other Epiphone ES-175 copies (non-premium without the Classic 57s) sounded different.

[John A.]

As it happens, I’m listening to someone play a 1-pup 175 at this very moment. I really don’t think I’d be able to tell whether it had 1 or 2 without looking at it.

I have a Seventy Seven Hawk Jazz, which is 175-ish Japanese guitar. It has a laminate spruce top and a 5-piece maple neck, which makes the tone a little different. But the build quality is great, and if you can find one they’re usually under $2k.

[Mick-7]

My money is on the ATC 105, a current day ES175 build. The company is better known as Archtop Tribute. Produced by Westville in Japan. They have a great reputation.

Actually, the 2 pickup ES-175 like model has a 'D' in its name, about $1400 new from Japan now, i.e., $100 more than the 1 pick-up model.
AT105?2x?????????

However, the write up says, "There is also no room for error in terms of playability."

Won't work for me, I make playing errors all the time!

[Jabberwocky]

??????????????????????????????

This one is available. JPY284000 ~ $1788.41 without a case. It is nitrocellulose finished with a Madagascan Rosewood fretboard. Thus the higher price.

[Archie]

Having had a good look at these AT guitars, they seem to be great fun and no doubt future classics, for those of us who like the affordability and quality of Japanese instruments. I started out on an Ibanez 175 copy from the late 70’s and it was my first real love for archtops. Before that I had a modern Hofner VP which was a real turn off.

I was curious to see how much of a copy these were (ATC175) and from what I can see, not that much and less than the Ibanez 2355 copies from the 70’s.
I may well be wrong but the plates do not seem to resemble the arched shape of the originals and the body outline does differ ever so slightly around the cutaway.
They've done well though to sail close to the wind but likely not too close. Although Gibson corp will happily sue you for making a guitar if they could.

I think the Ibanez 2355 would still represent the more accurate copy and with real vintage mojo to boot.
The ATC’s do have a nice looking vintage finish though.

[Mick-7]

As it happens, I’m listening to someone play a 1-pup 175 at this very moment. I really don’t think I’d be able to tell whether it had 1 or 2 without looking at it.

I have a Seventy Seven Hawk Jazz, which is 175-ish Japanese guitar. It has a laminate spruce top and a 5-piece maple neck, which makes the tone a little different. But the build quality is great, and if you can find one they’re usually under $2k.

The Hawks are under $1000 new in Japan now... oh, I think these are the "JT" (= Japan Tune Up) models, which are not made in Japan, just "tuned up" there -- https://store-shimamura-co-jp

[213Cobra]

I've owned a couple of Gibson ES-175s over the past 35 years, which I didn't keep. Have played many vintage versions. I have two deeply-loved inset-p/u ES-165s I have kept. I mention this as context for what's next related to ATC.

I recently acquired an ATC/Westville/Archtop Tribute ATC150CC. Yes, it's going to show up in an NGD post soon, with another find. It's a reproduction of the Gibson ES-150CC, as well as the late 1970s reissue Charlie Christian, both of which I've encountered and played over the decades. I can say this: ATC clones or tributes are about as close as you can get to Gibson originals in a new guitar. The ATC is better than the late '70s Charlie Christian reissues, IME. The woods selections are beyond reproach. Workmanship equals or somewhat surpasses Gibson's. Prices, new or used in the US are not worth bargaining over.

Do you really care about minor dimensional variances from Gibson's own minor production and era variances? Pickups can be replaced. The necks on ATC guitars include fab fretwork, and general fit and finish are as good as it gets short of certain higher-priced domestic luthiers.

An ATC ES-175 clone will be a fully credible 175 jazz box if you don't want to pay for a real one. I think if you see an ATC 175 clone you like at a price you like, you can buy it and play it with confidence.

Phil

[m_d]

Bruce Forman seems to love his Archtop Tribute. Probably one of the best deals on the planet at this time?

[2bornot2bop]

The Hawks are under $1000 new in Japan now... oh, I think these are the "JT" (= Japan Tune Up) models, which are not made in Japan, just "tuned up" there -- https://store-shimamura-co-jp

pity that they’re all sold out

[Mick-7]

pity that they’re all sold out

This one isn't but its finish is unattractive to me - and to many other people I bet -- Seventy Seven ??????HAWK-STD/DEEP-JT ?????

[John A.]

The Hawks are under $1000 new in Japan now... oh, I think these are the "JT" (= Japan Tune Up) models, which are not made in Japan, just "tuned up" there -- https://store-shimamura-co-jp

The JT models are not made in Japan. At this point I think the only option for their MIJ archtops is used.

[2bornot2bop]

This one isn't but its finish is unattractive to me - and to many other people I bet -- Seventy Seven ??????HAWK-STD/DEEP-JT ?????

That’s why it’s still available