An entirely different approach to home amplification

[Jim Soloway]

First, a plea to the moderators: please don't move this thread. Yes it deals with software but only in the context of replacing a physical amplifier.

Several years ago, we moved into a condo and playing through an amp at home was no longer really viable. I began playing full time through my computer, occasionally using my recording monitors but mostly, inspired by Joe D, with a pair of headphones. About two years ago I bought a nice pair of Sennheiser HD 560S open backs and life got a lot better. I also have a Universal Audio Volt 2 interface. So that's the hardware part.

For a long time I've used Scuffham Software's S-Gear amp modelling software to play live at home. It's nice software with 5 basic amp models, a separate speaker sim that can run both mono and stereo and delay, mod and reverb units, all offing a variety of options. They provide both a plugin for use with a DAW and a standalone version for playing outside of the DAW. I defined a few patches and that become my play-at-home rig. Ultimately, my use of the recording setup evolved into something very different than the standalone version. I have been collecting mostly free plugins for years and after recording a track, I would add different reverb, a graphic EQ, compression and sometimes an IR loader giving me a lot of different speaker and mic options. Along the way I also picked up several different amp sim plugins that would give me some different amp options if I wanted to explore. Those worked fine with S-Gear on recorded tracks in my DAW, but there was no way to add them to S-Gear outside the DAW.

All of that leads me to my latest experiments with VST hosting software, something I didn't know existed until about three weeks ago. Two of the better known examples are Gig Performer and Cantabile. Rather than replacing amplifiers, they really provide an environment that replaces physical amp modelers providing a method of combining any mix and match combination of VST plugins in what ever sequence works best for the user. Both companies offer a way to try their products for free. Gig Performer offers a 2 week trial while Cantabile offers a slimmed down "Lite" version. It's missing a couple of cool features but you can run it forever at no cost. I settled on Cantabile Lite, only because I was unable to get all my testing done in the two weeks over the holidays and I didn't want to spend any money until I was sure of the concept.

The short version is that it's been a huge win. I defined different patches for my two main guitars and even my wife, who says I always sound like me, loves the sound I'm getting from this rig. Her reaction was "That sounds like a really nice version of you". The patches are configured to match my favorite setups in my DAW. I start with a graphic EQ; then S-Gear with no speaker sim or effects, just the amp; next up is a nice simple vintage-style tremolo, the IR loader giving me a stereo speaker setup with a Roland JC 12 speaker on one side and a 64 Deluxe 12 on the other; from there it all goes to my favorite reverb plugin (Tal 2); and finally to a dynamic compressor. (I should also probably mention that, other than S-Gear, every one of those plugins are free. So my total software investment is $119 US. If I buy the version of Cantabile that makes the most sense for me, it would cost me an additional $69 US)

This is what the whole thing looks like on the screen. If I double click on any of them, they open up to their full graphic interface. There is also a mute button to turn any of them on and off (that was especially useful during the initial testing where I had multiple amp and reverb plugins and I wanted to A/B them quickly).


And this is what it sounds like using my souped up Mustang. And it really does sound just like this in my headphones.

So if you're thinking about an amp to play at home, I seriously suggest giving this a try. you can output to headphones like I am, or to a pair of recording monitors, to a small powered PA style cab and even to a blue tooth speaker. And if you already own an interface, you can do all the testing for free

[AllanAllen]

Even the test sounds lovely.

[Freddels]

I am in the process of setting up something like this too.

I recently purchased a Focusrite (haven't set it up yet) and already have the headphones.

[GuyBoden]

Good stuff.

Technology has come a long way since 25 years ago. Latency was the main problem at that time.

Nowadays, I only use VST3.

[Jim Soloway]

Even the test sounds lovely.

Thanks, I think it's probably the best recorded tone/sound I've ever gotten from this guitar. It's a nice way to work and really just a very enjoyable way to play.

[Jim Soloway]

I am in the process of setting up something like this too.

I recently purchased a Focusrite (haven't set it up yet) and already have the headphones.

If you need a good source for free plugins, check out pluginboutique.com. They have a bunch in almost every category and some of them are really good.

VST Plugins, Synth Presets, Effects, Virtual Instruments, Music Plugins from Pluginboutique

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Wow - that's one big, beautiful sound, Jim! I've used a similar setup for a long time, but there was always a slight audible latency that drove me nuts. I just upgraded to a fast i5 Dell when Win 10 support ran out. So I'm in the process of setting this up on it.

I got started with VST hosting when Native Instruments brought out the B4 (a very realistic Hammond / Leslie plugin) about 30 years ago. I used it on a laptop with a Roland pickup and Midi convertor on gigs, and I learned to counter the latency by leading the beat. The sound was superb, although staying tight with the band took inense concentration. But I stuck with it until I got a Roland synth (which has much less latency). I rarely play a gig that requires me to be a Hammond or a horn section any more, so the synth hasn't left home in a while. I use a plug-in B3 with a USB keyboard when I want to add it to a recording now.

I'll post when I get the new setup fully functional.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

OK - I got antsy to see how this works. I got Cantabile and loaded a fancy Champ clone plugin.



It really does work well! Just for comparison, I recorded a quick and dirty Shiny Stockings on Audacity, first clean and then just-past-the-edge. This is my Eastman 810CE7 (fully solid carved 17" with KA floater and TI JS113s). Here are the tracks, first clean then hairy with the exact same gentle reverb on both:





No audible latency at all! It does sound exactly the same live through Cantabile, which is pretty cool. I'll add some more amp plugins and see what we get. This is great. Thanks, Jim !

[Jim Soloway]

OK - I got antsy to see how this works. I got Cantabile and loaded a fancy Champ clone plugin.



It really does work well! Just for comparison, I recorded a quick and dirty Shiny Stockings on Audacity, first clean and then just-past-the-edge. This is my Eastman 810CE7 (fully solid carved 17" with KA floater and TI JS113s). Here are the tracks, first clean then hairy with the exact same gentle reverb on both:





No audible latency at all! It does sound exactly the same live through Cantabile, which is pretty cool. I'll add some more amp plugins and see what we get. This is great. Thanks, Jim !

You're very welcome. I think this is a seriously fun way to play. (and I really like your clean version. That sounds great).

[Jim Soloway]

Here's where we get to dive down the rabbit hole. I recorded the verse to Little Girl Blue while playing through the Ace in Cantabile. I then rendered it from Reaper to a single file with three versions running end to end. The first is using the S-Gear Duke, the second is the Ace and the third is Analog Obsession's Black Vibe. I tried to match the output levels but everything else is identical. The speaker is turned off for the Duke and the Ace. The Black Vibe has no speaker. All three are running through the Pulse IR Loader/Speaker Sim. The differences are interesting.

BTW, the Black Vibe also has tremolo. If you want to try it, here's the link
Just a moment...
(but to get the most out of it, you'll need an IR loader and some IR's. I can definitely help you out with that if you want try it).

[DRS]

Jim

I imagine your computer needs to be up to date and fairly powerful in order to run this software properly?
What was the learning curve like? I know you've been using computer based sounds for a while.
Did you spend more time tweaking than playing? My bugbear for modellers I've tried.

[Jim Soloway]

Jim

I imagine your computer needs to be up to date and fairly powerful in order to run this software properly?
What was the learning curve like? I know you've been using computer based sounds for a while.
Did you spend more time tweaking than playing? My bugbear for modellers I've tried.

I had the same thought about needing serious computer power but I actually had the opportunity to chat with one of the developers of Gig Performer, the other package I was considering and he said they were able to run it on very old minimalistic systems. The plugins themselves vary tremendously in the amount of resources they eat up but there is an expectation that these plugins are going to be run with a complex DAW and will be used with many other plugins across many tracks, so most developers try to keep them as small and efficient as possible. On the other hand, unrelated to this project, I just got a new computer last weeks and the performance of pretty much everything improved but it's definitely not essential.

As for the learning curve and tweaking time, it's way less than any modeler I've ever tried. You don't have to deal with the many layers of submenus and hidden parameters that are part of modelling on a hardware devise. There is some learning that has to be done to understand how the host interface works but that's a one time experience and once you know know the basics, it's actually really easy. The plugins themselves vary tremendously in their learning curve. I'm using only plugins that I have had a lot of experience with either because I use them with my DAW or, in the case of Scuffham S-Gear, because I've been using it as my "amplifier" for home playing for several years now, but I have mostly sought out plugins that are as simple as possible to configure and use and then I mostly just keep using them over and over. My musical needs don't change very often, so there's not a lot of need for the latest shiny new toy and I find that I very rarely like them for long anyway. The one exception to all of this is IR's. They provide your speaker sounds so they're really important and there are thousands of them out there, many of them for free. My advise on IR's is really simple: find a few you like and ignore the rest. IR's as a concept have a very high tonal payoff but IR's as a rabbit hole can be endless and the incremental improvement can be really hard to justify the effort.

One thing I will add to this conversation: I have already done most of the work and I'm happy to share what I have learned with anyone who's interested.

[Jim Soloway]

My modded Mustang has a pretty light output and I wanted something that would give me a little more gain without changing the tone much. I came up with a free plugin from Fuse Audio that I really like. It emulates the Neuman V72 tube Preamp. I installed it after my EQ (my first plugin in the chain) and just using the default settings with the "Power" and "Full" buttons engaged it added a really nice warmth and fullness. It's nice and subtle but everything just feels a bit richer. Here's a link to the page on the Fuse site. I believe it's also available for free from Plugin Boutique.

Fuse Audio Labs | Audio Plugins and Mobile Audio Apps