Looping with classical nylon string guitar

[Jonah]

Hi Dear Friends,

I like playing with loops and try to figure out how to do it better with classical guitar (it has no pre-installed pickup).

Basically three questions:
- piezo or mic? I think about piezo as the mic is too complicated, especially in a noisy space.
- which amp would you use for better quality? I never amplified acoustic guitars. And now at home I have only old microCube, it has 'acoustic' mode and also aux in but will it really work? Note, I work with classical nylon string guitar.
- which looper? I like to manipulate with recorded loops like switching off 1st loop and then play with the 2nd loop and so one. I am bit old school and like pedals but I saw modern apps - and they seem to be much easier to manipulate..

I am not looking for ideal recording sounds... for me it is important that I get more or less naturally sounding loop, and have not much issues with feedback and noise around while playing/recording...

I checked videos on youtube, we have now lots of info everywhere but I also appreciate the experience and advice of this forum.

Thank you

[Woody Sound]

Maybe this is not what you are asking, but...

If you are not gigging out, and don't need to be very loud, there are many small "acoustic" amps that will sound much better than your Cube. (The acoustic emulators on most guitar amps are aimed at approximating a steel string flattop sound, not nylon.). But I don't know what's available to you in EU.

If you want convenient, a pickup is the way to go.

[Cunamara]

In the EU? AER is probably the amp to get for amplifying a nylon string guitar.

Mics are easy to work with as they involve no modifications of the guitar. You can move relative to the mic to adjust volume and even tone intuitively. Sennheiser makes great mics or the workhorse Shure SM57 is a good option. But you'd need to go from the mic to a preamp of some sort (I like the ART Tube MP family, inexpensive and compact), then out to the looper. An onboard internal mic would be an option.

Piezo: so many kinds to choose from, each with plusses and minuses. Under-saddle transducer (UST) installation? Top mounted disc type transducer? Single source or combination sources (some can include UST, top-mounted transducer and/or an internal mic). Onboard preamp or a preamp pedal (for the latter, the LR Baggs Para Acoustic DI is good). None of the piezos will sound like the guitar really does, though.

[woodpecker]

The kna pickup , made in bulgaria, is the best l found. You don´t pay for marketing , so price is in reach for working musicians.
In concerts l blend it with a shure ksm 137(?), which became really expensive. Today l would buy a 2nd hand Neumann, avoiding usoftrump products. The pickup alone still sounds like a ....pickup.
For amplification l use a 2 channel aer from west germany .
No idea about complex loopers .
Good luck in your search for perfect tone on classical guitar.

[docsteve]

I‘m looking for a looper atm and the Ditto X4 seems to check all the boxes.

I thought of amplifying my Classical, too, but I find it easier to adapt classical music to the electric guitar. I play modern classical, that translates quite well.


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[Jonah]

I‘m looking for a looper atm and the Ditto X4 seems to check all the boxes.

I thought of amplifying my Classical, too, but I find it easier to adapt classical music to the electric guitar. I play modern classical, that translates quite well.


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i used to have ditto x 4 , it was good but still did not do what i needed.

i tried Loopy Pro on iPhone, it seems very versatile and easy to manipulate live but a bit too complex to set it all up.
I like that it has threshold recording and even cut loop and it does it very well, also very easy to stop/start recorded loops - no double clicking and jumping over a few buttons... on the screen it is much smoother and faster but you need to use hands of course.
But it means also that I should connect everything through the iphone whuch is an additional headache for me

I want to amplify classical guitar only for looping because I like play this type of guitar most... sonority, control etc. not because of classical repertoire

[Jonah]

The kna pickup , made in bulgaria, is the best l found. You don´t pay for marketing , so price is in reach for working musicians.
In concerts l blend it with a shure ksm 137(?), which became really expensive. Today l would buy a 2nd hand Neumann, avoiding usoftrump products. The pickup alone still sounds like a ....pickup.
For amplification l use a 2 channel aer from west germany .
No idea about complex loopers .
Good luck in your search for perfect tone on classical guitar.

May I ask which model of kna exactly do you use? As much as I see they have bridge version and the one to fix on the top...

[Cavalier]

K&K Pure Classic. Works even without a preamp.

[woodpecker]

it´s the pickup hold by the strings knots on the bridge
mix is 30% to 50% from the pickup (depending on the volume needed ), rest from microphone

[woodpecker]

no preamp

[jazzloverfat]

NG-2 PICKUP | KNA Pickups

I have one of these, but do make sure you get some sort of acoustic guitar amp or preamp pedal to EQ for it properly cuz you ain't gonna get it right if you plug straight into an electric guitar amp

[woodpecker]

aer is no electric guitar amp

[Bob_Ross]

- which looper? I like to manipulate with recorded loops like switching off 1st loop and then play with the 2nd loop and so one. I am bit old school and like pedals but I saw modern apps - and they seem to be much easier to manipulate..

I have extensive experience using multiple live looping delays, but you should take anything I have to say with a huge grain of salt, because
A) I have only ever used pedal or rackmount loopers, never any of the software apps; and
B) I tend to gravitate towards asynchronous overlapping loops that drift and recombine somewhat unpredictably. If your approach toward looping requires metric precision (e.g., when you switch off the 1st loop and play with the 2nd loop, does it need to happen right on beat 1 of measure 17?) then I only have limited experience with those capabilities in modern looping hardware.

That being said: You're in the EU? If so I would look closely at the Glou-Glou Loupé. It has all of the functionality of the old, venerated Oberheim/Gibson Echoplex Digital Pro (which I've owned and loved and regret selling), including the ability to extend loop length by metric lengths, and selectively overdub on full or partial extended loops. It also has a mic level input, so if you do choose to go with an internal microphone, no need for additional preamplification hardware. The company is located in Lyon, France.

If simplicity of execution is paramount, the tc electronic Ditto series is hard to argue with. If this will be your primary looper I would just go straight to the Ditto X4 which has all the bells and whistles; especially valuable are the individual footswitches for separate functions, and really large knobs for Loop level(s) which can allow you to execute crossfades with your foot (after some practice). [EDIT: I just saw where you said you'd already tried and not liked the Ditto X4, sorry.]

I've been following the development and evolution of the Looperlative LP1 for close to two decades now, and while I've never had the opportunity to use one, on paper it seems like it's still the most comprehensive looper on the market. Probably has the steepest learning curve too. Not sure how their LP2 compares, but it appears more compact and user-friendly.

The Chase Bliss Audio Blooper is surprisingly capable of creating sheer chaotic mayhem -- so naturally, I own one of those! -- but it can also function as a pretty straightforward looper if you simply don't engage some of the more dramatic Modifiers. It takes an additive-then-subtractive approach to multiple loops/layers, meaning that you can overdub a bunch of stuff and then move backwards through those layers until you're back at your original Loop #1...but if you wanted to move forward so that Loop #1 is gone and you're only playing Loop #2 (or 3, or 7) it takes a bit of finagling with the feedback control to ensure the earlier loop disintegrates in time.

There's a lot of cool hardware out there, and no shortage of demonstration videos on YouTube to see/hear them in practice. Good luck with your search!

[Zigracer]

Try the mic route first, as it involves no modifications to your guitar. If you decide you want a pickup, K&K sure does make a great product and some others do too. You also might want to look at the many classical guitars that are made to be played plugged in. While some of them may not have the acoustic qualities of your guitar, many of them play very well and are perfectly designed for amplification and direct into the board work.

As far as the looper goes, I have been using a Boss RC-500 for the past few years. You can configure the looper to accommodate two part songs (verse/chorus).

[Geospectrum]

I once secured a piezo pick up to a classical guitar using pritt-stick. It turns out this is PVA, ie wood glue. It’s still on there…

[KRosser]

There are clip on mics like the DPA 4099 you might want to check out. For acoustic amps I really like the AER Compact 60/4. My favorite looper for multiple loops (up to four, which can be synchronous or asynchronous) is the Boomerang III.

Lots of great stuff out there these days though, you'll get a lot of good recommendations

[2bornot2bop]

Seems if one is playing acoustically, a mic is invaluable. And two would be even better. They’re cheap today. But then again there’s the need for mic stands. Shouldn’t set you back too much.

For my money a mic sounds much more natural and nicer than any pickup. Only my opinion.