Guild Aristocrat P90

[Stefan Eff]

…stumbled over a bargain today, an aristocrat p90 in vsb, brandnew from a german online store. Since I‘m not afraid of chinese made guitars and since I build guitars myself I pulled the trigger. Those guitars are out of production and meanwhile pretty rare.



Can someone tell me if those Pickups are the same they put in the korean models? Thanks!

[LesB3]

AFAIK, the Korean models have Franz pickups, whereas the Chinese ones will be P-90 clones. I've never played the Chinese version, but I would imagine there is a difference that can be heard.

The Chinese models are also constructed differently (they're more like a Les Paul) whereas the Korean models are always fully hollow.

Enjoy!

[Stefan Eff]

AFAIK, the Korean models have Franz pickups, whereas the Chinese ones will be P-90 clones. I've never played the Chinese version, but I would imagine there is a difference that can be heard.

The Chinese models are also constructed differently (they're more like a Les Paul) whereas the Korean models are always fully hollow.

Enjoy!

Thanks, they‘re different indeed- the korean ones (I‘ve owned one) are fully hollow, the new ones are chambered. The latter got a modern D-profile 12“ radiused neck and jumbos, the older ones U-profiled necks with really high frets, 9“ radius. I couldn‘t get used to those necks.
Concerning the pickups there are completely different informations. I‘ll have to see. I love the subtle 2-tone sunburst on the chinese ones, very beautiful to my eyes and a lot prettier compared to the old version.

[LesB3]

You could be right about the pickups, regardless of the guitar, they are always referred to as "Guild Franz P-90" pickups on the official Guild copy.

It also looks like yours mount like a Franz (one screw) not a P90 (two screws) so probably are the same pickups. You could probably tell fairly easily by pulling one and flipping over.

[jads57]

I always loved the idea of the original late 1950’s model. But never felt quite right when I tried several through the years. Possibly neck heavy due to all hollow construction?

[Stefan Eff]

I always loved the idea of the original late 1950’s model. But never felt quite right when I tried several through the years. Possibly neck heavy due to all hollow construction?

That‘s the problem with such a small full hollowbody: Guess why Collings put a Bigsby on the Julian Lage model!

The Aristocrat P90 is only chambered and therefore heavier. But we‘re talking about a guitar in the 7lbs range…not that heavy. It is more than 50% hollow but yet balanced. Best of both worlds, so to say.

[Jx30510]

The "real" Aristocrat is totally hollow, only the back and sides are carved from a piece of mahogany.
The ones I tried (Korean Westerly models) were very light indeed, under 6 lbs.

I was very suprised when I found out the bridge was a floating one. I thought at first it was a ES 335 style mounting on the top. But it's two little metal "cups" sitting on the top. Unique construction.

Can't remember if they were neck heavy. Very nice guitar, super great sounding if you ask me!

I didn't know Guild stopped the MIK ones.
They may be sought after in the future.
The US original ones go for big $.

[Stefan Eff]

The "real" Aristocrat is totally hollow, only the back and sides are carved from a piece of mahogany.
The ones I tried (Korean Westerly models) were very light indeed, under 6 lbs.

I was very suprised when I found out the bridge was a floating one. I thought at first it was a ES 335 style mounting on the top. But it's two little metal "cups" sitting on the top. Unique construction.

Can't remember if they were neck heavy. Very nice guitar, super great sounding if you ask me!

I didn't know Guild stopped the MIK ones.
They may be sought after in the future.
The US original ones go for big $.

Yes, I‘ve owned one. Very nice but I couldn‘t bond with the neck radius.

[Jx30510]

Yes, and like you said in another post, the frets sticked out very high on the fretboard. Never saw that elsewhere neither.
If I would to buy one I think I'd make them reshaped lower.
I think the high frets where responsable for the akward feeling neck.

[Stefan Eff]

Yes, and like you said in another post, the frets sticked out very high on the fretboard. Never saw that elsewhere neither.
If I would to buy one I think I'd make them reshaped lower.
I think the high frets where responsable for the akward feeling neck.

Nope, I‘ve lowered the frets (which was helpful) but the „wrong“ neck feeling remained. I much prefer neck radii from 10 upwards. I‘ve also owned a Guild Manhattan, same problem. The „P-90“ model has got a slightly beefier neck with a 12“ radius, sounds good to me.

[Jx30510]

My prefered neck radius is 9.5, even though I feel good on 7.25 or 12. Above 12, like 16 on Martin or Godin, l like less.

[LesB3]

I have three MIK NS M-75's and I love them all. I have never had a problem with the way the pickups sound or their height or anything like that. They're like a mini version of my favorite Gretsch -an electrotone bodied Tennessean.

I would not describe the necks as thin, but also would not describe them as being substantial in any way. I have smallish hands and don't have any problems playing any of them. They are all fairly close in age (2022 - 2023).

The weak point on these is absolutely the switch - I don't know where Guild gets their switches, but they are so bad, they make the switches on 90's Epiphones seem "premium" by comparison. I have had some fail in as little as 3 months of casual playing. You might get a few more weeks out of them by being sure to leave them in the middle position, but replacing them will be inevitable.

I did measure the necks once:

Nut width = 1.67" / 42.09mm
String spacing @ Nut: 1.32" / 33.40mm
String Spacing @ Bridge: 2.03" / 51.48mm
Radius = 12

...so you may have had an older one with different specs (they probably did change over the years).

[Stefan Eff]

I have three MIK NS M-75's and I love them all. I have never had a problem with the way the pickups sound or their height or anything like that. They're like a mini version of my favorite Gretsch -an electrotone bodied Tennessean.

I would not describe the necks as thin, but also would not describe them as being substantial in any way. I have smallish hands and don't have any problems playing any of them. They are all fairly close in age (2022 - 2023).

The weak point on these is absolutely the switch - I don't know where Guild gets their switches, but they are so bad, they make the switches on 90's Epiphones seem "premium" by comparison. I have had some fail in as little as 3 months of casual playing. You might get a few more weeks out of them by being sure to leave them in the middle position, but replacing them will be inevitable.

I did measure the necks once:

Nut width = 1.67" / 42.09mm
String spacing @ Nut: 1.32" / 33.40mm
String Spacing @ Bridge: 2.03" / 51.48mm
Radius = 12

...so you may have had an older one with different specs (they probably did change over the years).

Nice collection! Neck dimensions and fret sizes are a very personal thing…but by the way: seeing your Aristos side by side like this – does the Dynasonic fit in the routing for the Franz pickups?

[LesB3]

I'm not sure, and wouldn't want to speculate lest someone go through the time and expense of swapping them out and be disappointed.

Oddly enough, both guitars sound almost the same, which might lend some credence to folks that describe both pickups as P90 adjacent. All three of them were 'special' editions, the black Franz model was 1 of 50, and the black "dyna" model was Europe only, 1 of 30 (a few made it stateside as part of the great Guild sell-off of 2024). I've never seen another Korean Bigsby-equipped M75, so no idea how many of those were made.

[Stefan Eff]

Oddly enough, both guitars sound almost the same, which might lend some credence to folks that describe both pickups as P90 adjacent.

That’s crazy ?, a Dyna is a complete different beast.

Sad enough that Guild seems to die silently. I don‘t get what they‘re doin today but maybe they‘re too much niche for a proper performance.

[LesB3]

That’s crazy ?, a Dyna is a complete different beast.

True, but the Guild reissue "Dynas" are made completely different than vintage or even modern Gretsch Dynas (which are more like the originals). The best examination of dynasonic / deArmond style pickups (bar none) can be found here:

Identifying DeArmond 200, 2000, and 2K Pickups | GAD's Ramblings

Modern Guilds with their "dynas" are like the Fender-designed DeArmond 2000 that the article starts with, so are constructed somewhat like a P90. Given that modern Franz pickups are also similarly constructed as a P90, I'm not all that surprised of the sonic similarity.

[Stefan Eff]

True, but the Guild reissue "Dynas" are made completely different than vintage or even modern Gretsch Dynas (which are more like the originals). The best examination of dynasonic / deArmond style pickups (bar none) can be found here:

Identifying DeArmond 200, 2000, and 2K Pickups | GAD's Ramblings

Modern Guilds with their "dynas" are like the Fender-designed DeArmond 2000 that the article starts with, so are constructed somewhat like a P90. Given that modern Franz pickups are also similarly constructed as a P90, I'm not all that surprised of the sonic similarity.

Thanks for the link, very interesting!

[Stefan Eff]

The pickups in the Aristocrat are the same Franz reissues they‘ve used in all their M-75 reissues from the Patriarch to the P-90. Fantastic pickups, I really dig them! Uh, and the guitar is awesome straight out of the box! Nevertheless I‘ll do some mods, more later.

[MiniMerckx.22]

I would think that some kind of weight added to the bottom of a strap would be much better and less costly than a Bigsby.

[Stefan Eff]

I would think that some kind of weight added to the bottom of a strap would be much better and less costly than a Bigsby.

My new Aristocrat is perfectly balanced. But honestly it wasn‘t a big disadvantage on the featherweight M-75.

[Stefan Eff]

So, here are some impressions after my customizations (Tuner, Bridge, complete new Wiring and a handful cosmetic upgrades) besides fret levelling/crowning, fretboard edges and matting the backside of the neck.
FANTASTIC guitar and it sounds uber cool.


(KMS Zamac bridge with nickled V-brass saddles)

[Sam Sherry]

Recently an early-build 2012 Aristocrat reissue slid back in at my house. I like 2x pickups and poly in the No. 4 slot -- it's cold outside.

The work:

> The Korean M-75 'crats are known for having the bridge pickup sit too high for the bridge-height to be cranked down as far as I like. I carefully taped, scored, sawed and chiseled the pickup socket. That allowed a 1/8" drop to the pickup height.

> The 16th fret was high, corrected by my pal Jim K. Between that and the pickup-dropping it's now at about 0.05" at the 12th fret and does not need to go lower.

> I flipped the electrical and magnetic polarity on the bridge pickup. Now it hum-cancels in the middle position.

> It got a set of rosewood barrel knobs with big maple pointer-lines on top. I can actually see where the knobs are!

As @Stefan Eff notes the Franz reissue pickups are perfect for jazz. AlNiCo 2 magnets sit under a fairly low-wind coil at about 6.7k Ohms. It's clear and full with a 12-52 set -- a really nice low E string, robust but not tubby.

I've stopped thinking about long-term keepers in the No. 4 slot. But this guitar is fun, useful, easy . . . it could happen!

[Stefan Eff]

^ Franz pickups are highly underrated.. but they‘re dam sexy. I like them a lot more than regular P90‘s, to my ears they are closer to De Armonds. I‘ve made a custom wiring for my new Aristocrat and set the Pkups real low, sounds like a dream.



(Franz pkups are super sensitive and their height is really really important, they get very nasty if they‘re too close. I also found they sound best if the polepieces are as flat as possible)