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In the long run, we're all dead.
Originally Posted by AllanAllen
-John Maynard Keynes
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01-09-2026 04:18 PM
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Maybe in Japan? There are excellent archtop builders there, and Fender has guitars built there at fair prices. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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The Orville by Gibson line was (perhaps still is?) built in Japan. as were the Epiphone Elitists. I don't think it would do much good for the brand to put Gibson on the headstock on Japanese built guitars. Originally Posted by Mick-7
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If Gibson did all 3 then all bases would be covered.
USA L-5, Japan Elitist Broadway, and China/Korea Epiphone.
All price ranges would be covered.
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This is what they should do. Can’t hook the teens with a $10k archtop. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
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"No matter what anyone says in the world no guitar manufacture outside the US has achieved what Gibson has done. "
Well, Fender for one...and although I own or have owned vintage L7,5 es175 and love them all. Ive played and heard many other guitars that for me played and sounded better, I only compare guitars that can be played acoustically, A good acoustic L5 or 7 is hard to find, their prewars were the best they ever made. I think theres more value to be found in a preloved axe thats been vetted and priced sanely (their out there) If were talking about a hand carved archtop I dont think Gibson brings anything to the table you couldnt get somewhere else for less (or an old one) and this is what I dont understand...if your plugging it in your hearing the whole system not the guitar so any advantage an "archtop" brings to the table is moot, if you dont agree I would suggest you listen to J Soloway on his $300. solid body. Im not bustin balls but when the Gibson subject comes up reason seems to go out the window in favor of loyalty to the mark. I dont think there going to make carved instruments again unless they farm it out and then its a Gibson? As for as lam boxes Arnies gonna beat them to the punch, Id likje to see that.
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Reminds me of something a bit off-topic: We have as a band played at small bars where one owner steers the whole boat, and enjoys the music and a profit from a good crowd. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
When said owner makes a success of the place (we helped with good entertainment) he's able to sell the place (at a profit) because it looks like a solid investment to some investors who need a place to dump their capital gains. You now have a group of investors who gang their dollars together and spread the risk.
Now without changing anything in the equation, you have several owners - who ALL want a nice piece of the pie. If they didn't do anything to enhance and build the income, they soon become agitated because they have to share whatever "pie" there is! That's when things get ugly. Next thing you know, cut the band's pay, sell more beer, install more "sports" TV's, turn the band down so the guys can hear the TV's, get more youngsters in who like more beer so they can watch more sports and hey!!!!! Who needs a band anyway???
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FWIW, it's worked pretty well for Fender. There may be a market for it - I'd certainly consider them after my experiences with Japanese-made guitars. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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Once they put oil in that water it’ll never come out, the luxury aspect will immediately and permanently vanish. Originally Posted by tuesday
Luxury is not having to explain you’ve got one of the good ones
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So just a thought about these newer instruments. I think for a long time now, these guitars by and large are solely based on sales to wealthy buyers.
And they are beautifully crafted instruments for sure. But they will rarely be used for gigs, recordings, in today’s music scene by pros.
And while that’s not a bash on the newer buyers,it saddens me to the current state of society’s priorities.
I guess while they were always expensive,they were associated with such great players I.e.Wes Montgomery,Johnny Smith,Tony Mottola,Pat Martino, George Benson, etc
Just bemoaning the past I guess.
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Quality American made products were never cheap and in the past, people saved their pennies to afford them. In doing that, those people had to do without everything they may have wanted (except for the wealthy who could have everything they wanted and more). Cheap labor (from Asia and Latin America) changed things. Originally Posted by jads57
The past is almost always the past, never to return (though things do move in and out of style, like archtop guitars). Here is a thought: The most successful musicians often become wealthy and they are among the buyers of expensive instruments along with the wealthy living room players. I suspect that the new Gibson archtops will be used for gigs and recordings by some pro musicians, some of whom will save their pennies to afford them and forego other things in the process. Much like the old days.
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Gibson’s were never cheap. A brand new 1934 Super 400 was $400 and a brand new Plymouth was $445 right in the middle of the
Great Depression.
The last Super 400 made in 2018 was the same price as a new
Toyota Corolla.
I had to work 16 hour days to buy Gibson’s but once I got it the price was soon forgotten.
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I see your point and certainly don't disagree, in my opinion this happened just a few years ago to a famous Swiss brand of brass instruments when they were bought out by none other than Eastman so I completely understand the sentiment. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
But keeping more directly related to American guitar companies, the allure of American-made Fenders never dissipated with the release of MIM or MIJ instruments. The MIA only became more a sign of luxury while the MIJ stuff concurrently has developed its own following and respect. But all of this is moot as I can't imagine Gibson opening a factory overseas for their brand name.
Anyway I just hope that vinnyv1k's source was correct because I would very much love to finally get an ES-175. Until then I will keep playing the Gibson solid-body that I saved my pennies for while working as a dishwasher when I was a kid.
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I guess I’m pointing out that while I agree they were expensive,they were more attainable by actual working musicians.
And more than that they really are not used for today’s style of music any longer.
The rare exception might be Peter Bernstein,and very few others.And I get it, they are designed mainly for a quieter style of music that’s an era gone by
Just such elegance wasted, much like a Rolls Royce to get groceries,Lol!
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"Anyway I just hope that vinnyv1k's source was correct because I would very much love to finally get an ES-175. Until then I will keep playing the Gibson solid-body that I saved my pennies for while working as a dishwasher when I was a kid."
I dont get it.. theres a shit pile of 175s (over 300) for sale on reverb from just below $3k to $30k many actually made in Kalamazoo so why the hell is anyone waiting for Gibson to make a new 175 that will cost more and have less quality probably made in Asia, if your OK with one being made in Japan the Japanese have their own brands that are every bit as good, mabey better. Gibson is not a guitar its a name. As far as carved guitars the market is rich with super fine examples from many builders at almost any price point and the best Gibsons have already been made.
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Adjusted for inflation, the Gibson USA line is less than/right in line with the "Golden Era" 50s. Good guitars are more affordable now than they have ever been. Originally Posted by jads57
A 335 in 1958 was ~$330 with a case which is equal to ~$3700 in 2026. A new ES335 lists for $3499 and can be bought for several hundred less.
A new les paul in 1959 was ~$310 with a case or ~$3475 in 2026. A new standard lists for $2799 and can also be bought for hundreds less.
A new 175 was ~$325 with a case in 1959. That's ~$3650 in 2026.
With CNC manufacturing tolerances are tighter than ever. There are more choices than ever from every imaginable price point between global competition from giant manufacturers all the way to boutique builders. We're in the golden era right now, imo.
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A CNC is not the panacea for cost in guitar manufacturing of archtops, a lam body doesnt use one, a carved body only for ruff in. Anyone tells you that you can get a fine carved archtop off a CNC at the level of a competent luthier is full of shit! If your plugging it in all bets are off and why would you care?
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Fender isn’t a luxury brand. We aren’t talking about the same thing anymore.But keeping more directly related to American guitar companies, the allure of American-made Fenders never dissipated with the release of MIM or MIJ instruments
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So Gibson isn’t a luxury brand either by that logic Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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It’s not like a new es175 will be any cheaper either… Originally Posted by Rickco
OTOH some like a brand new guitar
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Funny how how we know have so versions of a single model Gibson,Fender,etc. Started when so many people recieved marketing degrees,Lol!
And while it’s great there’s a Les Paul’s for every budget. I find it funny how much more they charge for a historic spec version vs. the standard version.
So will they have std Archtops and Custom Archtops? They did with Semi Hollow and ES-175 models in the recent past?
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Funny, this thread had already got me thinking about the year I spent washing dishes in high school so I could gather the $420 for a ‘68 LP Custom, and then the next year for a Martin D35. That was a lot of dough back then. Originally Posted by tuesday
They were the only game in town, as Asian guitars had not yet reached top quality status. Now pro players can find working guitars in all genres for cheap. If Gibson reissues arch tops, they will for surely be luxury items, and not necessary for pro work, even if desired.
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I would call Gibson a leading or premium brand, not luxury. The brand promises more - customer satisfaction, aura, resale value - than a random Gibson product without the badge might deliver. Of my six Gibsons so far, two ES-175s (2004-2005) were outright lemons. The rest were/are just fine but not exquisite in terms of workmanship. Qualified users here and elsewhere report on big variations between individual instruments, both tone and finish. That's unavoidable to an extent, but how can Martin produce 70,000-100,000 consistently great guitars each year? US workmanship and quality are not uniform, as proven by the ups and downs of the car and household appliances industries, for example.
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Guitars are not nearly as complicated as cars today for sure. Appliances in general are now a throw away deal. It almost never makes sense to repair a kitchen appliance rather than simply buy another one, assuming you can put it in yourself. I had a dishwasher getting loud but actually working. Drove me nuts it was 10 years old. I bought a new one scratch and dent deal on FB for $300. It would have cost $100 just for someone to tell me what is wrong. We are easily in the throw away for many things. this includes guitars that are broken and not worth much. It may not be all the bad many older things are less efficient. Guitars in some ways can be like this as new designs are easier to make changes and repair. Originally Posted by Gitterbug
Here is one for a thought. While the traditional glued dove tail joint of a guitar is said to be the best, I wonder? Would a fine bolt on neck actually be as good and much more serviceable. Taylor flattops have done this and they are good FT. I still like Martins better, but I can envision a highly engineered neck joint that could be taken apart relatively easy and yet be completely stable. It would make things like fretting an archtop easier and doing repair work for sure. What do you say?
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It will be interesting to see if this changes over time as CNC becomes better and capable of more complex/nuanced carving. Originally Posted by Rickco
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