Does removing a Bigsby leave holes in the tops?

[jim777]

I've never owned a guitar with a Bigsby, but I have never liked a guitar that've played that had one either - hence why I've never owned one. That said, would the installation or presence of a Bigsby on an archtop mean that there are holes in the top for it, that would be open and obvious if you removed the Bigsby?

For a guitar like This, would removing the Bigsby and replacing it with a standard tailpiece make it look like it never had one? Is there felt or something similar protecting the top from the bridge?

thanks, jim

[gvurrdon]

I do not know for certain but that looks like the Bigsby I had on my very much cheaper guitar:

Streamliner Collection :: G2420T Streamliner™ Hollow Body with Bigsby(R), Laurel Fingerboard, Broad'Tron™ BT-3S Pickups, Havana Burst

There were no holes in the top of the instrument, so it was possible to have it removed and replaced with a proper tailpiece (which did improve the sound, I thought).

There were some felt pads on the bottom:

[sgosnell]

There are different Bigsby models. The one in that photo looks like a model which needs no holes, the unit rests on felt disks underneath it, on the guitar top, and the only holes are those in the rim for mounting, like any other tailpiece. If you replace the Bigsby with a standard tailpiece, there is a rather high probability that new holes will be needed in the rim for mounting the new tailpiece, but the old holes should be covered. It's like replacing any other tailpiece. I've replaced similar ones, and there was no issue with damage to the top, no evidence the Bigsby had ever been there. I cannot guarantee that for a guitar I've never seen, though.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

IIRC, the only Bigsby models that mount into the top are those for solid bodies with flat tops (currently models 5, 50, and 500). None of the Bigsbies for archtops requires any screws other than those into the rim around the end pin. The mounting holes for the Bigsby may not line up with those of the original tailpiece for a particular model. New holes would work fine unless they’re so close that they’d either hit the Bigsby holes or be close enough to leave a thin, weak party wall. You could fill the old holes with a fat toothpick and use a StewMac touch up stick on the ends for a decent but definitely visible repair.

OTOH, unless you got the Bigsby off soon after the guitar was made, there may be visible changes (coloration, surface smoothness, etc) where the pads rest on the top. After a long time and a lot of light exposure, the areas of the top covered by the Bigsby can lighten or darken, depending on the finish on the guitar. Light tends to cause pigment to fade but nitro to darken.

[andrew]

The B7 model and its derivatives like the B70 (the ones with the tension bar) are used on some hollow body guitars and do indeed require holes in the top. The B6 (and the import version B60) do not require holes in the top. Which one you use depends on the geometry of the guitar (neck angle, bridge height, etc.). In my experience, the B6 provides better tuning stability, but has comparability with fewer instruments.

[DawgBone]

The L7 model Bigsby on my Edwards ES has two screws that go into the top of the guitar to hold it down.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

The L7 model Bigsby on my Edwards ES has two screws that go into the top of the guitar to hold it down.

Jim asks specifically about an archtop and uses a Super Eagle as an illustration. I don’t think there’s ever been a fully hollow Edwards. If yours is one, please post a pic & details so we can learn.

There have been many Bigsby models over many years, and a few did screw into the top. But none of them was made for a hollow archtop and AFAIK the only current production Bigsbies that use any screws other than on the end are for solid bodies.

There was a company called something like ZZ Guitar Works that made a Bigsby clone that was held in place by stop tail studs, but they’re long gone now. I don’t know if it needed screws into the top, although I think it slipped onto the studs just like a tailpiece.

There’s also an adapter plate called Vibramate that lets you put a B5 Bigsby on stop tail guitars. They claim it can be used on some guitars with an arch in the top, but it’s made for guitars with flat tops. It uses screws to hold the Bigsby to the adapter plate, but I don’t think they extend into the top. It’s held on by custom studs that go into the TP stud holes.

[AllanAllen]

Some of them have a screw, some don’t.

Unfortunately, on the guitar in question, the bar is covering the exact spot the screw would be.

[andrew]

I guess it depends on how one defines the terms "archtop" versus "hollow body", but there are definitely plenty of thinline fully hollow guitars like the ES-330 with Bigsby B7s screwed into the top.

https://eddiesguitars.com/product/gi...gYBRhKWAqgels-

Collings I-30 LC Pelham Blue Top w/Bigsby
– Chicago Music Exchange

Access to this page has been denied

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I just spoke with Shane at Fender about this (they bought Bigsby from Gretsch 6 or 7 years ago). You can reach him at 1-800-856-9801 if you want more info. I asked him specifically if they recommend sinking screws into the top of a fully hollow archtop guitar to mount a Bigsby. His answer was clear - the models with screw holes over the top are intended for semihollow guitars with center reinforcing blocks and for solid bodies. There are ways to mount Bigsbies on big hollow archtops, but they strongly recommend letting a luthier decide if it's OK and do it.

Fender (who now distribute Gretsch parts and are the sole source of "genuine" BIgsby products) strongly recommend that a luthier decide if a fully hollow archtop is a good candidate for a Bigsby and if so, which BIgsby to use for a given guitar.

They make several models, some with screw holes over the top and some without. For example, the B6 and B60 are made for large hollow body archtops, and they do not have screw holes anywhere but in the endplate. If you look at the actual diagrams of the different models, you'll find this notation on some (circled in red in the illustration below):



When they say "arch top guitars", they mean solid and semihollow guitars. Shane recommends using a reinforcing plate under a Bigsby mounted on a full size hollow achtop. A thick ply top is probably fine with the relatively small screws that go through the front of the frame into the top. But the luthers I've asked all say that if they need it, they run that front screw into the parallel brace beneath it on hollow guitars without a block. The screw can split a brace if not placed well and/or if tightened too much. The pilot hole has to be perfectly sized and aligned with the center of the brace

I would not screw a BIgsby into a carved top without some kind of reinforcement and protection inside the top. I would only screw a Bigsby into a ply top on a fully hollow guitar if no model without top screws will work on it and there's a brace right under the screw that's big enough to completely encompass it and solid enough not to split.

If a guitar has had a BIgsby on it and there are one or two holes in the top where the front of the frame was secured, check the inside very carefully for damage (especially to the brace beneath it). Using top screws does make the Bigsby more stable on the top, which improves tuning stability and stabilizes the action of the Bigsby. But sinking the screws into a center block is so much more effective and likely to last a long time.

So the answer to Jim's question remains that if the Bigsby was properly chosen for and fitted to a fully hollow full body archtop, there should be no holes in the top. If there are holes (filled or not), be very wary of what lies beneath. It may have been done well, but it may have been removed because it wasn't done well.

[RomanS]

It's actually pretty easy:

Bigsby units that have an extra tension bar, underneath which the strings pass through from their way from the mounting bar (the one the handle is attached to) to the bridge have to be screwed to the top of the guitar, or else the strings would lift up the whole Bigsby unit.
These models are intended for solidbody or semihollow guitars, but are occasionally used on (thinline) hollowbody guitars with a shallow neck angle (like the Gibson ES-330 or the Eastman T64).
These models are the B5, B7, and B12, and the Asian-made clones, B50, B500, B70, and B700.

Bigsby models without that extra tension bar, ones where the string goes unimpeded from the mounting bar to the bridge, are only mounted to the rim of the guitar, near the strap button - NO holes in the top.
These are intended mainly for hollowbody guitars, though you also find them on some solidbody or semi-hollow guitars with a steeper neck angle (like the original Gretsch Duo Jet).
These models are the B3, B6, and B11, as well as the Asian clones B30, B60, and B600.

There's one odd duck: The B16, the original Telecaster Bigsby, with the integrated pickup mounting plate (lateron, most Teles with Bigsbys used the B5) - it doesn't have the tension bar, but still screws to the solidbody top of a Tele (and requires a very thick shim, to get a steeper neck angle).

The Bigbsy shown in the pic by the OP is a B6, which is NOT screwed to the top of that archtop!

BTW, using a Bigsby on a carved-top archtop is not a problem, I've had one on a Loar LH300 for years; just make sure not to remove the felt pad, so the lacquer doesn't get marred at the point where the Bigsby touches the top (underneath the spring cup).

[AllanAllen]

There’s a lot of “should” and “intended” that’s is completely discounting the mentality of “I’m going
to put a whammy bar on this stupid old guitar” that happened with these archtops in the 70s and 80s.

[Hep To The Jive]

IME Removing a bigsby leave holes in your life!

[DRS]

What if there's a hole? It would be a tiny screw hole.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

What if there's a hole? It would be a tiny screw hole.

That depends on the guitar, the model Bigsby, and how skillfully it was placed. The biggest issue is a carved top fully hollow archtop. Properly done, the screw(s) would go into one or two braces on a parallel braced guitar. With other bracing styles, it’s a crap shoot how close to a brace the screw(s) would come. But unless it was installed by a skilled luthier who checked inside first, made sure the top was suitable for it, and measured for the screw location, the damage could be significant.

There’s also side to side motion of the Bigsby when the lever is moved. Those front screws into the top are to stabilize against this. But if a screw is just into the top and there’s still even a tiny amount of side to side motion, the screw hole will be enlarged irregularly over time in a thin carved top. It could even start a crack.

Screwed into a solid body or a semi’s center block, it’s not a problem. A thick ply top should also be OK with the right size & pitch screw for the material and thickness. The screws should not be overtightened and should be checked for looseness regularly.

[teeps]

Ask the seller ? They should know - or help by checking for you.