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A friend brought it to the gig so I could check it out. It's electrically and mechanically excellent, despite its appearance. What you see is what he got, and he likes it just like it is. I've never used one before, so it was both an experience and an honor. TBH, I don't think I'd have much use for it these days except maybe blues gigs where it's mic'ed. There's not much clean headroom. It's on the edge somewhere between 11 o'clock and 1, depending on the pickup driving it. It has a broad sweet spot between the on-the-edge setting for a given guitar and about 2 numbers or so higher, where it's smooth and chimey with nice sustain. It favors a Carlton / Ford tone in that window and does it really well with a garden variety PAF style humbucker (I only tried one guitar through it). Much above that, it's what the designers of the original TS808 must have been trying to achieve. This is the real deal. It was truly cool and great fun!
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09-20-2025 05:03 PM
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How cool is that!!
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How cool is that!! I use the Victoria 20112 as my main gigging amp, would love to play through an origin of the species someday.
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The 20112 is a wonderful amp that uses the 5E3 circuit. There are a few differences between the D and the E that affect tone and make the E a bit better for gigging today. The D used the 12AX7 solely as a phase inverter, while the E only uses half of the 12AX7 as a phase inverter. The other half is used to add gain to the preamp stage. Leo also upped the values of a few caps in the signal path to add a bit more bass. I think he did this between the C and the D too, but I don't have original schematics and have never worked on either model. I do know that in original configuration, the E is a bit richer in tone than the D and that it's generally attributed to the caps in the signal path. This also translates into a bit fatter tone when pushed past the edge. It's purely a matter of taste.
Originally Posted by Woodstove
The 5D3 put out more than a hint of Dumbleness when I hit the sweet spot. LIght picking with the side and broad edge produced the sweet, crying tone that seems to come so easily to Carlton, Ritenour, Ford, etc. It didn't have the sustain of an ODS, but the basic sonic structure was there. I'd love to try it on a blues gig.
The little Vickies are mighty tempting! My '76 Princeton makes some sweet sounds, but the edge is further up the volume scale and the sweet spot is a bit narrower before the OD starts to get a little rough.
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Funny you mentioning the Dumble tones you found in the 5D3 circuit. I was just A/Bing the Victoria with an amplified nation Steel String Singer, 100 W. I'm using a PS100 with all my tube and non tube amps btw and it is a fantastic resource I want to write more about in another thread. I adore the SSS and with the PS100 I can get to its sweet spot in a small club, but you know what, the Victoria more than holds its own. I am dialing in clean, using the #2 channel low input. I use a "dude" overdrive when needed and an always on SP compressor. The excellent tone control/palette of the PS100 brings out the best in the Vicky and it makes a superb jazz/blues/and rock amp easy to carry to gigs. And with the line out of the PS100 it goes front of house as well. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
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I guess the raggedy ann look is a theft prevention strategy? Removing the metal Fender logo plate will help even more.
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Some may see Raggedy Ann. Others might see an honest, hardworking, unapologetic instrument of music. That logo is a badge of honor.
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Very interesting. I have a 5C3 clone that I built (as a matter of fact, I just used it on a blues gig tonight and got lots of compliments on my tone. Don't need no overdrive pedal, just turn the amp up!). I have plenty of experience with 5E3 clones, but I've never played or knowingly heard a 5D3. The tonal differences between the C and the E are easy to chalk up to the octal preamp tubes and the smooth cone speaker, so I'd be curious to hear a D vs E shootout. Do you know what kind of speaker it had?
The 5E3 can really be a great jazz amp, especially with an efficient speaker. Just ask Rudy Van Gelder!
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According to the owner, it’s the original P12R and he had it reconed. Originally Posted by andrew
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LOL... that amp has seen some sh@t...
Always be slightly wary of mint amps etc. Great sounding ones get played. Lemons get tossed in the closet.
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Geez, not even a touch up marker would help that.
I'm cool w rode hard and put away wet but gotta admit I'd be tempted to pin that grill up.
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The tweed and grill cloth are so bad that the envelope is pretty fragile. Every touch could pull away another inch. The owner doesn’t usually take it out of his studio, so I suppose it’s irrelevant. He only brought it for me to experience because he’s proud of it and knew I’d appreciate it. Originally Posted by wintermoon
Geez, not even a touch up marker would help that.
I'm cool w rode hard and put away wet but gotta admit I'd be tempted to pin that grill up.
TBH, I wouldn’t be happy leaving it like that. Patina is one thing, but this is way past that stage. The panel, handle etc are still in the patina stage and would look wrong in a freshly recovered, regrilled cabinet. I think I’d try to find worn but intact tweed and grill cloth from a larger cabinet that could be cut to fit.
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You probably know that Mr. Dumble built a bunch of 5D3 / 5E3 derived amps in his later years. Search out "Tweedle Dee" and ye shall find. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
The TD is not a 5E3 clone -- there are thick Dumble fingerprints all over it. Foremost, the bias is "past eleven" -- it's designed to deliver the sound of 6V6s on the bleeding edge of red-plating, and Dumble chose extra-sturdy JJ tubes to get there. The circuit biases the power tubes to about 110% of spec. (Also, there's a localized negative feedback centered around the phase inverter, and lots less 'woof' compared to a stock 5E3.)
I built one that worked (and one that's stuck on the bench). I couldn't get used to that "just about to blow" feel so I swapped in a Weber solid-state rectifier plugin and a 16 Ohm speaker and ran 6L6s -- and they were running at 70% with no adjustment !
It's a dandy little amp. I'd take the TD over a stock 5E3 any day.
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I said I'd be tempted to pin the grill up but on second thought if you really crank it you might get a cool flag flapping in the breeze effect.
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That could be a poor man's tremolo. But Leo was so cheap that he probably tried it until Don Randall told him it was a terrible idea. Originally Posted by wintermoon
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Man, if that tattered old rig could talk! :-)
I have the head version of Fender's updated 57 Deluxe (5e3 circuit), and it's all the 'old school mojo' one could ask for. Finding its 'sweet spot' is an ongoing event, since it sounds/responds differently depending on which speaker cab or guitars are connected to it. It requires a lot of knob twisting and channel switching to get the most from it. Tons of fun!
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