KA Floating PAF vs Benedetto S6

[Woody Sound]

I was wondering if the S6 would give me a slightly darker tone than the KA PAF. I pulled this of Google/AI. Seems like some of the statements contradict each other. Comments?

AI Overview

The Benedetto S6 offers a clearer, more balanced sound with a focus on warmth and acoustic-like tone, while the Kent Armstrong 12-Pole PAF (a common model for comparison) provides a brighter, fuller, and more articulate tone with greater low-end presence and a broader tonal response. Choosing between them depends on your desired sound: select the S6 for a warmer, more acoustic tone with excellent string balance, or the Kent Armstrong 12-Pole PAF for a brighter, more powerful, and harmonically richer sound that captures more string length.

Benedetto S6

• Tone: Warm, clear, balanced, and retains an acoustic-like quality.
• Characteristics: Excellent string balance and clarity, with a less bright sound than many floaters. It's considered a "darker" sound by some, but with good definition.
  
• Best for: Players seeking a warm, full-bodied tone with excellent definition and balance, especially for rhythm playing.
  

Kent Armstrong 12-Pole PAF

• Tone: Brighter, fuller, and more articulate.
• Characteristics: Captures a longer section of the string, resulting in more low-end and a richer harmonic content. It's also more even across the frequency range.
• Best for: Players wanting a more powerful, fuller sound with greater brightness and richness, and who prefer more articulation.
  

Key Differences

• Brightness:
  The Kent Armstrong is generally brighter, while the Benedetto S6 is warmer and darker.
  
• Balance:
  The S6 has superior string balance, whereas the standard KA floater can sometimes be prone to a "B" imbalance.
• Fullness:
  The KA's 12-pole design provides a fuller tone with more low-end than the S6.
• Acoustic vs. Electric:
  The S6 emphasizes the guitar's acoustic tone, while the KA offers a sound closer to a full-sized humbucker.

[Cunamara]

I was wondering if the S6 would give me a slightly darker tone than the KA PAF. I pulled this of Google/AI. Seems like some of the statements contradict each other. Comments?

My main comment would be that a tone knob adjustment would give you a slightly darker tone with the KA. I couldn't resist, sorry.

My experience with the KA floater is that it has a "firm" or "hard" aspect that can't be dialed out with the knobs. It does not sound like a PAF to my ears. I've not tried the S6, but reputation it is softer and darker.

As for AI output, most of what's available to the general public is prone to inaccuracies. It basically parrots what it finds on the Internet and the source material may not be of good quality. What you quoted pretty much reads like previous comments made here.

[GuyBoden]

No pole screws on the Benedetto wouldn't be an advantage over the KA, I have a KA it sounds nice to my old ears.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

As for AI output, most of what's available to the general public is prone to inaccuracies. It basically parrots what it finds on the Internet and the source material may not be of good quality. What you quoted pretty much reads like previous comments made here.

AI just gathers and collates the same inaccurate, inconsistent, unvalidated drivel we can find by ourselves on the internet into a summary. This makes it much quicker and easier to mislead yourself.

One man’s shrill is another’s clear. Your dark may be my warm. Is it responsive or overly sensitive? There’s no substitute for your own ears and fingers. But it takes time and effort to experience these things yourself. Buying blindly based on web reviews is a terrible way to pick your parts. Ya got to get your hands on it!

FWIW, I love the Benedetto B7 in my laminated 16” archtop. It’s a little bit fat but tight and clean all the way down. String balance is very even without adjustable pole pieces. It puts out a classic ES tone. But I also love the KA HW 14 pole in my Eastman Jazz Elite. It’s a bit woodier and a little brighter, but so is the carved solid top. One day I’ll swap the two to see how each sounds in the other guitar. I gotta hear it for myself.

[Woody Sound]

One day I’ll swap the two to see how each sounds in the other guitar. I gotta hear it for myself.

Exactly.

[Sam Sherry]

AI just gathers and collates the same inaccurate, inconsistent, unvalidated drivel we can find by ourselves on the internet into a summary. This makes it much quicker and easier to mislead yourself.

Please don't hold back -- how do you really feel?

One person’s shrill is another’s clear. Your dark may be my warm. Is it responsive or overly sensitive? There’s no substitute for your own ears and fingers. But it takes time and effort to experience these things yourself. Buying blindly based on web reviews is a terrible way to pick your parts. Ya got to get your hands on it!

'Warm' in my 99sf practice room is often 'thin' in a club.
'Shrill' playing alone is often 'clear' playing with a band.
'Laser-beam' in Seat D is often 'nuanced' in Seat W.
'Thick' with speaker A is often 'middy' with speaker B -- even with the same amp on the same settings.
'Robust' with .012s is often 'meh' with .009s.

Each of those points represents countless nights driving home depressed by how bad my gear sounded. (And don't get me started about my playing!)

My advice, such as it is, is that learning about music is a process, learning about improvising is a process, learning about guitar-playing is a process and learning about gear is a process. Recognize that you are in a process and try to find ways to enjoy it as a process.
Or don't. I'm just bits and bytes on the InterWebz.

[BreckerFan]

I've done a direct comparison between the mounted versions of each, a Benedetto B6 and a KA PAF0, in my Guild X-150. I much prefer the sound of the KA. The Benedetto isn't voiced like a traditional humbucker IMO, it lacks midrange body and has a lot of top end presence, I think in an effort to try and give it a more acoustic voice. The KA is a traditional humbucker voice, a lot darker and fuller sounding, which is what I was after.

[Woody Sound]

So, Amzn has the S6 with returns, so I can try it out to compare to my KA12pole.

[entresz]

I'd take the KA over the S6.

The S6 didn't have a bad tone but the string balance was terrible. The high E was incredibly loud compared to the B (which was significantly quieter than all the other strings), to the extent I found it totally unusable.

I tried so many different sets of strings and nothing would provide a workable solution.

The S6 was replaced with a Pete Biltoft floating CC with adjustable poles.

[Woody Sound]

I'd take the KA over the S6.

The S6 didn't have a bad tone but the string balance was terrible. The high E was incredibly loud compared to the B (which was significantly quieter than all the other strings), to the extent I found it totally unusable.

I did read that somewhere else. Maybe it was you(?!) We shall see.

[entresz]

I did read that somewhere else. Maybe it was you(?!) We shall see.

Probably was me!

[58flame]

I have 2 guitars with the floating S6. They both sound good plugged in. No complaints.

[jads57]

Haven’t tried the Benedetto S6, but have had several K.A 12 pole piece floaters. Generally speaking the wider the aperture then the fuller the tone.
I didn’t like the Benedetto humbuckers that at came with my Bambino Std and switched them out to more PAF lower winding replacements by Manluis pickups.

I don’t believe Benedetto actually makes their own pickups in house. But use outside vendors like Seymour Duncan,etc. The Benedetto floater looks a lot like maybe a Bartolini offering?

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I don’t believe Benedetto actually makes their own pickups in house. But use outside vendors like Seymour Duncan,etc

Duncan has made all "Benedetto" pickups for several years, but they don't seem to be wild about it. I bought a B7 from Djangobooks a few years ago, and it came with a wiring diagram that showed 5 wires - but my pickup only had 3. I called Duncan and they told me that all Benedetto B6s and 7s have 5 wires. I told them mine has 3. The succession of people with whom I spoke insisted I was wrong. I called Djangobooks and was told that their pickups were fresh and whatever Duncan said was correct.

So I finally called Benedetto. It turns out that Duncan has not been providing Benedetto and buyers of prodiucts sold with the Benedetto name on it very good service. The pickups were changed from 5 to 3 wires a few years before mine was made. But Duncan apparently never updated the package insert, and they never educated the people who answer their product service and support phone lines. Benedetto sent me the correct wiring diagram and the pickup has been fantastic since I wired it correctly.

[GuyBoden]

If you don't already know, there is another forum thread on the Benedetto S6 Pickup:

Here:
Benedetto S6 Pickup

[Woody Sound]

If you don't already know, there is another forum thread on the Benedetto S6 Pickup:

Here:
Benedetto S6 Pickup

Thanks GB. Somehow my nosing around didn't pull that. I any case, I'll install one in a few days and see about that B string issue. i've been using lighter strings (11's) because of wrist arthritis issues. So the B string issue could be worse with them, we'll see.

[Woody Sound]

I used to equate smaller humbucker = brighter'thinner sound ; wider humbucker = darker/fatter sound. I guess that's not necessarily the case.

[jads57]

Well I guess there many factors involved including aperture, winding count, guage of wire, magnets used from Alnico to Ceramic. placement height of actual pickup?

[GuyBoden]

I used to equate smaller humbucker = brighter'thinner sound ; wider humbucker = darker/fatter sound. I guess that's not necessarily the case.

Most very thin pickups do sound very thin and bright. I had many over the years.

But, I've never had a DeArmond Rhythm Chief.

[Marty Grass]

I've chased this floating pickup quest for years. I've had KA's 12 pole, KA transplants into Heritage floaters, Heritage Floating #3, a rebuild Heritage floater converted to a single coil, and the Rhythm Chief 1100. There's a KA that I can't recall the name of on a Heritage Johnny Smith.

I don't mean this literally, so cool your jets. But it seems like Satan is telling me that my pickup is a problem. I now know that the pickup is maybe item 10 on the list to address. Technique, amp settings, strings, and mode of attack (fingers, picks, etc) are much more important and cost little or nothing to address.

There are those on the forum who are at the level that all other factors are optimized and the pickup is holding them back. I'm not one of them but wasted abundant time believing I was. I now set my standard to this: When I can play three Johnny Smith and three Wes Montgomery selections with mastery, I will consider a different amp and pickup. These currently aren't the cause of my failings.

That said, KA pickups and the 1100 are great choices. And happy hunting!!

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

There are those on the forum who are at the level that all other factors are optimized and the pickup is holding them back.

I’ll see your observation and raise the pot. I don’t believe a pickup can hold anyone back from anything. We’ve all seen and heard so many great players make fabulous music with marginal instruments that believing a pickup or string or capacitor or wood or setup is preventing one from greatness is clearly wrong. Where would we be if Joe Pass had refused to play that Fender because it held him back?

[jads57]

As much as we overly dissect each component of our gear choices. Much of it is basic fine tuning each aspect.
I love how younger players are so convinced the vintage gear has some magical connection to your musical dreams,Lol!

And while sometimes this is based on some great recordings,etc. It ultimately is the player and their use of the said tool. As mentioned Joe Pass on a Fender Jaguar etc.

My feeling is there’s never been a better time to find great musical gear both expensive and reasonable in price.
Problem is the revenue stream for great records,cd, etc is basically gone And we now live in a world of hobbyists collectors showing off their toys to each other. I’m probably most guilty of this as well,Lol!

[Woody Sound]

I'd take the KA over the S6.

The S6 didn't have a bad tone but the string balance was terrible. The high E was incredibly loud compared to the B (which was significantly quieter than all the other strings), to the extent I found it totally unusable.

Well I've had the S6 running for a few days and I must say, the tone and string balance on mine are fantastic across the board. But you do need a wound g, otherwise g & b are out of wack. I had the KA on for a few weeks before (note the pg cutout). Obviously it's hard to compare without being able to a-b. I'll run the S6 for a couple more weeks to get really familiar with it, then switch back to the KA and see what I can discern from the change. Regardless, they are both great. I have to point out that this is a lightly built lam top, but fully hollow thinline guitar.

[JazzNote]

FWIW, I love the Benedetto B7 in my laminated 16” archtop. It’s a little bit fat but tight and clean all the way down. String balance is very even without adjustable pole pieces. It puts out a classic ES tone. But I also love the KA HW 14 pole in my Eastman Jazz Elite. It’s a bit woodier and a little brighter, but so is the carved solid top. One day I’ll swap the two to see how each sounds in the other guitar. I gotta hear it for myself.

I would love to hear what conclusion the comparison leads you to!

I enjoy KA's on several carved archtops, 12pole and regular floaters, just one Benedetto S6 on a Fratello. I honestly couldn't say which I like better, also because I don't know to what extent the electric tone is shaped by the instrument and to what extent by the PU. As already mentioned in another post in this thread it's easy to darken the KA with a tone control, in fact for my ideal sound in some situations unavoidable. When comparing a Campellone Special (with a regular KA floater) with the Fratello (with a S6) one of my duo partners concluded that the Fratello sounds warmer than the Campellone (both guitars without tone control through the same amp settings). In my opinion it's the other way round. So it's also the individual perception which matters much.

[deacon Mark]

I much prefer a KA it just sounds better and looks better. Not a fan of the Benny it is ugly to me and darkish sounding.